Taxes

I'm not sure where to put this so here it is! Has anyone heard the latest on what they want to do with taxes? THey want to add a national SALES TAX up to 25%!!!!! And this is not to replace the income tax, just a NEW tax!
That is to say nothing about Obama's carbon tax (he's been talking about that for a while) which will make gas go up to more than $4 again. Also the state wants to add a new gas and diesel tax! Did they ever, ever think about slowing down on the spending. I cannot believe it. Yesterday, I was in the car so had the radio on and that was all they were talking about. I got so frustrated, I just can't tell you. Stop spending, stop spending, stop spending!

Forums:

And to think, it's FREE FREE FREE!!!!

xrayspx's picture

Fiat is trying to buy GM's European ops (Opel).

Opel makes some fast, and great little/medium sized cars.

I just noticed, Ze Russians bought Opel. Funky coincidence since I referred to Soviet era cars in that same post. Go Capitalism.

Rangel can't understand his island-getaway taxes any better than the Secretary of the Treasury Geithner can.

I actually singled Rangel out because he's on the committee that makes goddamn tax law, and he can't figure it out. Jeez I have what in The Business is known as a "Tax Guy", whose job it is to figure all this out for me, so that if I end up in the newspaper someday because of something stupid, I can say "It was Tax Guy". If my return is wrong, it's Tax Guy who answers to the IRS.

Why can't Geithner and Rangel figure out that it's worth $1000/year or two to pay a fall-guy.

To Obama's credit in all of this, he has repeatedly said "6 months ago I never thought we'd be running a car company, and I really don't want to start now, we have to spin off what's profitable and close what isn't", or words to that effect.

I look at this hopefully as kind of a corporate raider situation like in Wall Street, where the govt. takes the company, liquidates what sucks and sells off anything worth money to someone who can hopefully manage it better than GM did.

Of course, I'm not entirely naive, this whole thing is a boondoggle, but it's a hard choice. Would you rather put the state of Michigan out of business or hopefully help restructure the companies? I think GM is a great example of "old, dead-wood that should probably just die", myself. But then I start thinking of all the vendors and the trickle-down effect of such a closure. I still generally side with "let it fail".

Make a shitty product long enough, with cost structures that are such that you have to charge more for it, and watch people ignore you in droves.

I think given the choice, I'd rather have a $31,000 Merceded C-Class over a $30,500 Chevy Impala LTZ, for instance.

(I drive a Corolla myself, which I would take over a Cobalt or a Ford Focus any day of the week, having driven all three)

xrayspx's picture

I hastily said that referendums on taxation are bogus. I forgot that Mass just had one one, a referendum to abolish the Mass state income tax, and it failed.

I believe it failed because people thought it would wreak havoc on all the other taxes they get jacked with, and they're right. An income tax is less regressive than something like a sales tax, so poorer people would be inclined to keep an income tax. I dunno, I was fully in favor of it myself, since I get hit with this and get zero of the benefits. People say "You use our roads, you are destroying our roads, you must pay".

Highway maintenance in MA doesn't isn't paid for from income taxes, it's paid for by gas taxes and about half by 20 year bond issues. Besides, cars don't destroy roads, semis do. I really wish MA Prop 1 had passed, because only a moron would buy anything in Mass anyway, so what do I care if their sales tax goes up. Then what did they do? They jacked their sales tax by 1/4 anyway, just to show the citizens who's boss I guess.

I actually singled Rangel out because he's on the committee that makes goddamn tax law, and he can't figure it out.

Oh, he can figure it out, all right: He made the rules.

Why can't Geithner and Rangel figure out that it's worth $1000/year or two to pay a fall-guy.

1) Because they're crooks?

2) Because they belong to The Party of Crooks?

3) Because they knew they retain immunity from their personal "One-Party-Immunity—Rules"—from being fined?

They fully knew what they were doing: Prove me wrong.

To Obama's credit in all of this, he has repeatedly said...

Obama talks—a lot!

Where's Obama's promised under-$50,000 tax-break for Seniors, for example?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/24/end-income-t...

or "Just Words" at:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc

Wouldn't Mussolini have said the same words? After all, they're "Just words..." stolen from Governor Deval Patrick's own rhetoric.

Would you rather put the state of Michigan out of business

OPM shouldn't be paying for Michigan's failure to govern itself: in fact, it's unconstitutional to do so. (At least with the present Supreme Court, that is).

Big Brother will force "Green Cars" on us—made by the UAW—and funded by OPM. (That'$ the union that $upported Obama—it'$ payback time—BIGTIME).

OPM will pay for the retooling, OPM will pay for Federal, State, and Municipal governments' mandatory purchases of "Green Cars", OPM will pay for the necessary warranties, and OPM's "Green Cars" made in the failed State of Michigan will have American buyers lined up to buy "Green Cars" none deep.

Without still another bailout with OPM, nobody in his right mind is going to buy an unsafe "Government Motors" car, especially if still another layer of OPM-funded bureaucracy is needed to support the "Lifetime-Warranties" that will surely be needed to move these cramped and unsafe cars off the showroom floor.

Like Obama, I suggested a "soft landing". After wasting billions of OPM, GM has a hard landing anyway.

:-\

"6 months ago I never thought we'd be running a car company"
—Obama

Obama is indebted to the Unionists so you can bet your last tax dollar that the new CEO will be labor friendly.

When The Government bailed out Chrysler the first time, The Government didn't fire Chrysler's CEO, Lee Iococca. But now, The Government has appointed its own guy, and The Government has canceled Iococca's pension!

"...Of course, I'm not entirely naive..."
OK, just what are you naive about?

Is it possible to be a "knowing practitioner" of "Naive"?

Are the practitioners of "Naive" blind to the effects of their OPM-pirating/OPM-hijacking agenda on "We, The People"—and our "Pursuit of Happiness"?

.

BTW: (OPM = "Other People's Money)

I'm not sure where to put this so here it is! Has anyone heard the latest on what they want to do with taxes?

Shouldn't these tax issues be started under "Wolfeboro Politics"?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

Can you explain the following:

What is the demonstrably difference between GM and the AIG bailout? Is it not still my money going into federalization in whole or in part of a private entity?

How would McCain have handled the automotive bankruptcies any differently/better?

How is it not dictatorial to force a bank CEO to follow through on the purchase of another bank after he learns that their financials are much worse than he was led to believe?

As I've said, I believe the car companies deserve what they get. All of them. From what I've read and heard there is 40% over-capacity in the industry in general. I'll dig up the photos of thousands of foreign and US cars sitting rotting on shipping docs sometime, it's pretty bad.

Can you explain the following:

What is the demonstrable difference between GM and the AIG bailout? Is it not still my money going into federalization in whole or in part of a private entity?

How would McCain have handled the automotive bankruptcies any differently/better?

->First, AIG is not a private company. It is owned by the American taxpayer.

->McCain waffled before the election: To vote a conservative conscience—with NO bailout and normal bankruptcy for GM—would have garnered far fewer votes than submission to the popular sentiments of the Mindless Masses—which he did.

->GM is going through bankruptcy even though bailed-out with billions of OPM. The Mindless Masses were fearful of losing jobs that they are presently losing anyway.

->Government Motors was a private entity going down the tubes due to the UAW—a thug-union whose inept leadership demanded an unrealistic healthcare scheme: They gave their own ill-gotten dues-monies (not OPM) to Obama.

(The Universal Healthcare they sought—via Obama—would assure the UAW's continued free enjoyment of their free benefits—using a continuous drain of OPM rather than their own).

->Clinton's quickened escalation of FreddieMac and FannieMae excesses—using OPM in a disasterously-corrupting mortgage market—led to AIG becoming a necessary government-adjunct supported with OPM.

->OPM was handed to AIG, whose CEOs handed OPM to Obama, Dodd, and other Congressionals in an effort to shield AIG's bloated CEOs.

->BTW: It was OPM that Obama gave to ACORN, whose leaders then handed back OPM to Obama—for his coffers.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

I think if GM and Chrysler hadn't been helped initially, they would have had to liquidate, which would have been fairly horrendous for everyone since there was no credit market to sustain them a few months ago. However, I'm still of the mindset that they could probably find funding to carry them through a regular chapter 11 without federal funds now. However, people smarter than me disagree about this.

If GM moves with even half the expediency of Chrysler through their restructuring, then this will be a complete non-issue in 6 or 8 months, though yeah, jobs will still be lost longer term over the next couple of years, it will be more of a "ramping down" instead of 80,000 pink slips on June 2nd.

As for AIG, we own them NOW, they were a private company. A private company that ran itself into the ground, and for which we've shelled out $180bn of OPM as you're fond of saying, does have a ring.

At least we're starting to get TARP repaid, and as much as the spinmeisters were saying how much of a bargain we're getting on AIG, and that the taxpayer might see a profit from it, well, I'll believe it when I see it.

And so far as ACORN is concerned, I really hope you're not referring to the $5.2bn for ACORN that was included in the stimulus package. If you are, then I guess I really have been giving you too much credit for rational thought.

I'm not going to simply dismiss your concerns there though, since your conspiracy theories only mirror those that the left has been witnessing with the $21bn in no-bid contracts Halliburton received before kissing the US goodbye and heading to the UAE.

"...they would have had to liquidate, which would have been fairly horrendous for everyone.

->Yup. The "hard landing" I expected to happen. Billions of OPM has changed little. Voters who thought their jobs were doomed still have doomed jobs.

->Announced yesterday was the closing of a parts plant.

Guess how much OPM our new Fascist-style government will draw from us to warrentee the automotive products of the the UAW-mighty Obama Motor Corporation?

->Unemployment, thanks to reckless UAW union contracts, will still escalate.

->Dealers selected for closure (by a 31-year-old Fascist lawyer—and, like Obama—absent of any business experience) will not be reimbursed for their inventories of unsold cars.

I really hope you're not referring to the $5.2bn for ACORN

Of course not. But this news story might aid understanding the leap for Fascism—with ObaMedia reporting:

"...the Times had been working on an Obama-ACORN story but that "Ms. Strom reported to Ms. Moncrief that her editors at The New York Times wanted her to kill the story because, and I quote, 'it was a game-changer.'" Hoyt undertakes to show that this charge was false..."

"...it will be more of a "ramping down" instead of 80,000 pink slips on June 2nd..."

"Pink slips" are better than a Fascist takeover of an industrial giant.

Obama's newest emission regulations to "Save The Planet" means Americans won't be able to buy the vehicle that they want in a very few years. Those imported cars that do comply will be selected-for through Fascist-style campaign contributions or be strangled by Fascist-style taxes at the dock.

Only Geithner's family-connections with Ford may save America's most popular seller—the F-150. And maybe those ties aren't strong enough.

Maybe you agree with this poster:

"...the bailout of AIG came about because lobbyist$ and financier$ called their marker$ in and the politician$ did exactly what they are paid to do, they vote in the direction of those paying the freight, unfortunately the American public does not have a lobbyist..."




There is a lot of right wing hot air blowing on this site. If I didn't know better I would say that those windbags, Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, were doing some posting.

xrayspx's picture

Heh, you'd be surprised how much right-wingery I can put up with when the topic is taxes. We do live in NH after all. Socially, well...that's a completely different story :-)

I don't think that universal healthcare is a "non-conservative" notion, if it can be achieved in a cashflow-positive way, cutting or eliminating entitlements we already have to fund the new stuff. The problem is that with our current tax structure, it just wouldn't happen right. It's something I'd really love to see done correctly though.

Same thing with the VAT, if it replaces taxes we already have and makes everything easier, great. Problem is, it wouldn't, it would end up just being an additional income stream. Besides, VAT is too regressive for my taste, as are most Libertarian-conceived "flat taxes".

I actually didn't know until just this year that NH does have an income tax on interest and dividends. CW, if I didn't have Tax Guy, I'd probably have been screwed. I forgot about that. I also disagree with taxation like Massachusetts, and taxation on income-tax refund checks. "So...I just gave the government an interest-free loan, which they pay back to me, and then tax me for the privilege". I'd love to get the 32% my credit card charges for that, I could buy a new car.

edit:
What I don't agree with is the notion that President Obama is in any way a "Marxist" or a "Fascist". I remember heated yelling matches during the last administration wherein the President would completely fucking botch something ($500MM/day war in a country that didn't threaten us directly is a great example), and when people would complain, they're told "He's your leader, we're in a war, he deserves your compliance, if not your respect". Now, all I hear from those same people is "OMGSECRETMUSLIMMARXISTSOCIALISTFASCISTACORN".

Gotta stop that shit.

x. NH does have an interest and divends tax.
I agree, I wouldn't have a problem with a VAT either, but that is not what they are talking about. This is an ADDED tax.
Poppa, glad you are here, but so far tell me what you liberals have done to help us out of the mess we are in. Methinks you have just made it a whole lot worse!!!!!

You're right Popatuf, this Forum does get pretty drafty now & then!
oc

oc, I was getting worried about you. We haven't heard from you for a while!

Tis, thanks for the warm and cozy welcome! I appreciate the moderator setting up this site and oc getting it the publicity in the Grunter. A lot of people read this stuff.
I think Obama is doing a great job Tis considering the hand he was dealt. We have a long way to go and I think we're heading in the right direction. I know that just makes you want to pour another drink (in my face).

"...you'd be surprised how much right-wingery I can put up with when the topic is taxes. We do live in NH after all. Socially, well...that's a completely different story..."

I don't know why you straddle the fence.

While The Government maintains a continuing raid on your pursuit of happiness, a similar raid continues on this country's values:

We are not currently Socialist France.

We have the right to life, liberty, and "the pursuit of happiness"—a life we choose for ourselves.

Life: Shield the Unborn
Liberty: Keep The Government's grip from us: We shouldn't be begging today for Freedom.
Pursuit of Happiness: Allow "The People" the freedom to do what they want—especially with their own money.

OPM is not your money to spend to suit your (collective) feelings.

The present administration is spending OPM far, far, far, far, far, recklessly than any other US government preceding it. They use OPM that "We The People" would prefer to use instead as we choose in a free marketplace.

"The People" are still allowed to vote on social issues—except Massachusetts—where they are ruled by appointed judges.

Where "We The People" are still allowed to vote on social issues—we have no lobbyists. Monied Interests—even now—are rushing to a judge to reverse a vote "By The People".

BTW1: Yes, welcome Poppatuf.

You saw that I provided a NYT article that was kept from you by NYT editors—before the election? Google "game-changer" "for the rest of the story".

BTW2:Clinton* used Halliburton during "Monica's War" against Serbia. The only alternative then was—and still is—a French business that's been doing the same work as Halliburton for ages.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

I don't know why you straddle the fence.

Because as we've seen in other threads, I have very serious problems with the current management of the Republican party.

Life: Shield the Unborn

There you go. I'm rather ambivalent on this. In my personal life, I don't know if I could make the call. However I do understand that there are people left without options. I also see no difference between "The Unborn" and "The Born". I don't see how you can "protect the unborn", while being the Killin'est Governor in the Great State of Texas. It is an anachronism. Either "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "Thou Art A Fucking Hypocrite". Our most religious leader put more prisoners to death than any elected official in US history (155).

Pursuit of Happiness: Allow "The People" the freedom to do what they want—especially with their own money.

Unless The People are two guys who want the full rights inherent in a marriage, in that case, fuck 'em. This is the only issue, in the history of thought, that I've ever agreed with Dick Cheney upon.

--back to topic--

I don't believe the Mr. McCain would be doing even a marginally better job than Obama. We live in interesting times, with the largest companies of their types in the world crumbling under mismanagement. Mismanagement (in the financial sector at least) which was enabled and encouraged by the deregulation of our "Fiscal Conservative" Republican party.

Greenspanomics and Reaganomic deregulation are what we're reaping the benefits of right now. This is what an unregulated market economy gets you. It was only rubbing salt in the wound that we were in the middle of the most expensive war ever by day, running up insane debt, and the Republicans decided to give us our taxes BACK. "Hey fuck it, we don't /need/ your money, we'll just borrow our way out of this...". That's not very fiscally responsible.

Who is John Galt? John Galt is a selfish fucking asshole, that's who.

tis wrote:
"oc, I was getting worried about you. We haven't heard from you for a while!"

Oh, don't worry tis, I know we live here in Wolfeboro, but we're keeping our doors locked for now!

Poppatuf wrote:
"Tis, thanks for the warm and cozy welcome! I appreciate the moderator setting up this site and oc getting it the publicity in the Grunter. A lot of people read this stuff.
I think Obama is doing a great job Tis considering the hand he was dealt. We have a long way to go and I think we're heading in the right direction. I know that just makes you want to pour another drink (in my face)."

You're welcome Poppatuf and by the way, while I was quite skeptical of how Obama would be as President, I am now impressed with his inherent skill at the job. People who can handle the difficult task of being President of the United States are very rare. We, as a nation, are lucky to have him.
oc

xrayspx's picture

Enjoy Mad Fold-Ins: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/03/28/arts/20080330_FOLD_IN_FEATURE.html

Yeah, I'm bored, sure, I've been drinking...but Mad? Always fun.

xrayspx's picture

The world's ending. We both seem to agree with Michael Moore. "Who among us wants $50 billion of our tax dollars thrown down the rat hole of still trying to save GM?".

Wow.

For the Record:
Roger and Me - Loved it
Canadian Bacon - Grows on you more every time
Bowling for Columbine - Awesome
Fahrenheit 911 - Liberal whaaargarbl. Plus it sucked.
Sicko - Much better than F911, not as good as Bowling.

"...I am now impressed with his inherent skill at the job..."

Me too: We continue to strive to save Iraq, we continue to strive to save Afghanistan, we continue to maintain Guantanamo, we still have "Stimulous Packages", Obama adheres to "Marriage is 'One Man and One Woman'", and we continue to maintain "data-mining" of the airwaves.

:)

However, Obama probably shouldn't have returned a bust of Winston Churchill because his grandfather was killed in the Mau-Mau rebellion against the Brits.

He could display HIS ORIGINAL birth certificate to quiet rumors that he was never constitutionally-eligible for our Presidency.

He could relax his grip on GM by not appointing his own board members.

Ford might still be in business a few years from now if they don't have to compete with OPM—designed to fight Ford.

[Ford—like GM before it—garners its greatest income (and prestige) from sales of truck-bodied SUVs. Ford truck existence (and all their SUV's) grows dimmer due to the jeopardy it has with Obama's new rules on Global Warming—to use OPM to put Ford out of business.]

[However, his firing the CEO and appointing board members—plus doses of OPM—will assure a bright future for "Government Motors". (Even though nobody will be buying them. Though you CAN bet that New Hampshire government will have a slew of them—all bunched together being rebuilt from the factory—under the warranties paid for by OPM.]

[OPM must pay for seven years of replacement parts from China and warranties likely to be extended—then extended again.]

"...I have very serious problems with the current management of the Republican party..."

So does the Republican Party.

:-/

"...I don't believe the Mr. McCain would be doing even a marginally better job than Obama..."

"Belief", like "Feelings", has no place for "what could have been".

Obama only wrings his hands over the Norks' latest ballistic-missile launchings and nuke-blastings.

"...I don't see how you can "protect the unborn"..."

What part of "Life and Liberty," do you not understand?

"...Unless The People are two guys who want the full rights inherent in a marriage..."

You wait: you'll see that they get it, then The Obama will drop tax benefits TO EVERYBODY to garner even more OPM for His Utopia.

(And report—What a Good Thing He Did—in garnering even more OPM to spend willy-nilly).

"...the Republicans decided to give us our taxes BACK...."

Check your mailbox.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

"......"

Sorry, Poppa, I guess I offended you. I didn't mean to. I was just wondering how you thought he was doing. I guess you are with most people who voted for him. It seems those who did think he is doing a great job, those who didn't think he is doing a terrible job. I would like to see some improvement in the economy and so far it just seems to me that things are not getting better. He has not ended any wars. What do you think he is doing right?

I was just kidding Tis but thanks for the apology anyway. oc, I appreciate your sincere comments on Obama. Tis, what has he done for us lately?
On the up side General Odierno stated about 6 weeks ago that we'll be out of Iraq by the end of 2011. That's good news considering we're still losing soldiers there. The NYT yesterday had the names of 4 more kids who passed away.
Existing home sales jumped 6.7% in April and I believe the DOW finished at about 8700 yesterday.
May was the best month this year for new car sales and yet not enough to sustain the auto industry.
Congress will send up new legislation to provide health insurance for everyone in this country. That is a home run and it's funny that the medical industry all of a sudden can find savings of 2 trillion dollars over the next 10 years when Obama is breathing down their necks.
There may also be legislation by the end of the year to provide safeguards and regulation in the financial industry so a downturn like this can never happen again.
Recently new gas mileage standards were passed for automobiles. Even though it's 30 years late it's still good news. Also we need new energy legislation to slow down greenhouse gases. There are Republicans who still say that global warming is a myth despite the fact the ice shelfs are melting at a dramatic rate and the Atlantic Ocean in the northeast may be 5 feet higher by the end of the century.
Obama is in the mideast this week trying to lay out groundwork for a mideast peace between the Arabs and Israel. Unfortunately a hard liner took over in Israel and that may make things difficult, but in the end there has to be peace. We can't keep fighting wars over there.
Obama and Clinton have also been spending a lot of time in Latin America trying to foster better relations with them. We've been ignoring them for too long and the Muslim world is making inroads down there.
Obama has taken a stand on closing Gitmo and ending torture, a practice we never should have employed.
Afghanistan and Pakistan are a real problem and we ignored them for too long. Pakistan could be our biggest problem because they are a nuclear nation and the Taliban is getting too close to the nukes. Obama is taking a hard line in that region as he should.
North Korea seems to be the test that Biden predicted and they are a thorn in our side. Hopefully we can calm them down through the UN.
On the down side the unemployment numbers for May are not good. Over 500,000 more people lost their jobs and the unemployment rate has gone up to 8.9%. We clearly have a long way to go.
The Republicans say all of this spending is unsustainable and the Democrats say we can do all of this and still reduce the deficit considering the growth involved. There must be tax hikes and I know you don't like that Tis, but the Bush tax cuts were a big mistake during wartime. Even McCain voted against them the first time.
Obama has made thoughtful cabinet appointments including some Republicans. Gov. Huntsman of Utah looks to be the future of the Republican party and is now serving as our ambassador to China.
Lastly, Obama exudes the confidence that we will get through all of our problems. He gives me the sense that he can fix anything that comes his way. We don't need a president who looks like a deer stuck in the headlights.
Today, there is a lot of hot air coming from the left!

Thanks for the reply. I guess basically you and I just have different philosophies as do most liberals and non liberals and what you see as good, I often see as bad. I do like ending the war, but the last administration was planning to do that anyway-in a couple of years. I believe home sales would have picked up anyway, because prices have dropped. Things run in cycles. I don't like his health care, I don't think the gov. can run anything right, I don't like closing Gitmo and spreading them around possible in the US. I don't like his carbon tax, I don't like raising taxes as you said, I don't like him saying it is ok for Iran to have nuclear power. He doesn't give me the sense that he can fix anything at all. But again, we will never agree and that's ok. That's what the world is all about. Remember I didn't think Bush did everything right either.

Thanks Tis, in 2012 I'll have you voting for Obama! (just kidding again)

I would have to do a complete turn around to vote for him Poppa! I do have to say I am not right on some social issues. I like less government, less nanny state, I want us each to be responsible for ourselves whenever possible. I want the gov. to leave me alone.

tis wrote:
"I would have to do a complete turn around to vote for him Poppa! I do have to say I am not right on some social issues. I like less government, less nanny state, I want us each to be responsible for ourselves whenever possible. I want the gov. to leave me alone."

Has the Governor been bothering you tis?
oc

Tis, I know you like this guy, you are the type of person who likes somebody who is straightforward and personal. I think I can bring you into Obama's column in 2012.

... ($500MM/day war in a country that didn't threaten us directly is a great example)...

Both you and Poppatuf (as a NYT reader) might be interested in this blurb:

"In its May 22, 2004 edition, the New York Times confirmed a myriad of reports on Saddam's nuclear fuel stockpile - and revealed a chilling detail unknown to weapons inspectors before the war: that Saddam had begun to partially enrich his uranium stash.

"The Times noted: "The repository, at Tuwaitha, a centerpiece of Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program, holds more than 500 tons of uranium. Some 1.8 tons is classified as low-enriched uranium."

BTW:
Low-enriched Uranium is the major component in a "dirty bomb".

A 1.8 TON "dirty bomb" is a WMD.

Well, oc, I assume you are asking about the new marriage bill just passed. I do not believe in it, yet I can see their point. I think marriage is only between a man an a woman but they don't really hurt me-at least I can't think how they do- by marrying.
No Poppa, I don't think there is any way you will change my mind about Obama unless he changes his mind about a LOT of things. Call me old fashioned but as I have said repeatedly, I believe in the old US, capitalism, everyone works hard to get what they have and should not have to take it out of their pockets to give to someone who prefers to sit around and do nothing. I do not believe in wealth distribution as Obama does. I believe if you work hard for anything in life , then and only then, should you be rewarded.

North Korea seems to be the test that Biden predicted and they are a thorn in our side.

Thanks for pointing that out. And all this time I thought it was the Russian invasion of the former USSR Republic...or...Iran's nuclear threats...or Russia's pressuring Kyrgyzstan to shut down the U.S. air base in Manas, an absolutely crucial NATO conduit into Afghanistan...announcing the formation of a "rapid reaction force" with six former Soviet republics, a regional Russian-led strike force meant to reassert Russian hegemony in the Muslim belt north of Afghanistan...and Russia's establishment of a Black Sea naval base in Georgia's breakaway province of Abkhazia—conquered by Moscow last summer!

So what "Girding of Our Loins" DID this administration do?

Lastly, Obama exudes the confidence that we will get through all of our problems.
I call it "Hopey-Changey"

:)

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

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