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So Where WAS Obama Born?

"...Snopes has been accused by forum members here of being part of some Liberal plot..."

Snopes is self-serving (as well as Liberal-serving) and subject to correcting their own errors "on the fly".

WND finds errors in Snopes and "Fact Check" accounts of BO's birthplace:

Quote:

"But it even gets worse for Snopes.com and wikipedia.com. By clicking on the link wikipedia provides for information on Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children you find these comments:

"The hospital is the alleged birthplace of Barack Obama, President of the United States..."

"Wikipedia is unable to confirm Obama's hospital and even admits his official birth certificate is in dispute as Snopes.com links to wikipedia as proof that Obama was born in Kapiolani Medical Center and not only that but the very source that Snopes.com cites for the hospital of birth also contradicts Snopes.com report on the issue of Obama's birth certificate."

http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-oba...

I grew up in Hawaii.

I'll have to ask my Dad what hospital I had my tonsils out at. I recall it as Kapi'olani Hospital: The "Medical Center" part must have been added since then.

Finally, a turning point in the quest to produce information from Obama's real birth certificate:

"According to attorney Orly Taitz, who is working on multiple cases alleging Obama is a "usurper" because he doesn't meet the constitutional requirement that only a "natural born citizen" can be president, U.S. District Judge David O. Carter ruled in a hearing today that her case will move forward..."

QUOTE:
"...among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records..."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103918

xrayspx's picture

Just like the Hawaiian governor, health officials and two newspapers have said.

LET.

IT.

GO.

There was just as much of a case against J. Sidney McCain, but since he's not brown, and not a Democrat, it's no biggy. Drop it. It makes you look like a lunatic, and I know for a fact you have good arguments to make about topics that actually matter.

xrayspx's picture

Don't get sanctimonious about how Snopes is "self serving liberals" and then come out with ValuesVoters and WND :-)

Well, I hope it DOES go forward PTW. We SHOULD know the truth one way or another. If he is truly a citizen then we should know. If he is not then we should know. Again, if he IS, why won't he release these things and get it over with?? Why spend more than a million to fight it?

xrayspx's picture

Now, we're also seeing cowards ready to desert on their voluntary military duty, on the premise that Obama isn't legally able to order them to go to war. You know, since Obama isn't a natural born citizen and all.

Great.

I still just think it's sad that you believe there is a 40 year old conspiracy to make it appear as if a baby was born in Hawaii, on the off chance that that baby might be a Presidential candidate. Forged documents, phony newspaper announcements, it's all very cloak and dagger.

And now I'm also starting to see calls demanding a look at this guy's financial aid statements?

I never saw that with Clinton, and it's likely that Clinton grew up as poor or poorer than Obama. He went from a trailer to the Ivy League, studied at Oxford. I saw no one claiming any impropriety in his financials...from when he was 19.

No one complained about Clinton because all that info was provided, not the stuff going on with obama not producing documents. This is why some are skeptical about him, makes perfect sense to me that they are.

xrayspx's picture

Cool, can someone provide links where I can read up on all his financial aid and scholarship information? And how he paid for whatever was left after his scholarships/financial aid? I'm assuming he wasn't on full scholarships, but given that he was a Rhodes Scholar, he very easily may have been given academic rides.

I've also seen to be discussing Obama's "Harvard Worthiness" and whether he was some token Affirmative Action student. I understand the argument against taking someone who's not qualified and jamming them into University on the theory that you need to be "more diverse". I don't think most of those "diversity students" end up being the youngest editor of the Harvard Law Review.

I believe Obama got into Columbia and Harvard the same way anyone else does, through hard work and by being the smartest guy around. I'm not even slightly interested in how he paid for them though.

That's the problem x, he won't release any of his information. If he would, it would prove that he DID NOT RECEIVE AID AS A FOREIGN STUDENT, thereby proving that he was a citizen.
Clinton might have been sleezy but at least he produced his school records, passport etc.

xrayspx's picture

Where may I see Clinton's released financial aid records, or Biden's, or Palin's, for that matter (J Sidney McCain famously finished 3rd from last in his class at a service academy, so we know how that was paid for).

So how much financial aid did Joe Biden receive for the University of Delaware for his dual BA's in History and Poli Sci? Or when he got his JD with a concentration in Xerox-maintenance from Syracuse?

How did Sarah Palin pay for her 4 colleges (having attended U. Idaho twice), to get her undergraduate communications degree?

I haven't heard any credible sources questioning either Obama's birth status (at least since the Governor of Hawaii took time off from campaigning for McCain to certify Obama's birth certificate as legitimate), or questioning his financial aid status. The only people seriously questioning either are the fringes of of the fringe. It's the same as the 9/11 Truth wackos, or, as I've said before, the Tri-lateral commission, one world government wackos.

Michael Moore is a good example of such wackjobbery with his focus on the Carlyle Group.

The military guy who brought the Federal suit for BO's birth certificate?

He just got fired.

xrayspx's picture

The only thing that surprises me about your note is that he simply "got fired".

I pretty much expected him to end up in Leavenworth for disobeying his chain of command and refusing to deploy with his unit. Throw in a bunch of other sedition and treason type stuff the military likes to pile on as well.

I think he's lucky he got off with just losing his career. Did they give him Sec. 8 or did they just say "pack your bags and GTFO"?

The SOB should get a dishonorable discharge along with a few years in prison for disobeying his superiors and not deploying with his unit.
There are ways to make your point, but being a coward is not one of them!!!
President Obama is our Commander in Chief and should get the respect that goes with it.

I hope the judge that agreed to hear the suit only gets "fired". He will probably have a "heart attack."
x, the point of releasing the school papers is not to see how bad or good he did, noone cares about that. I already said why in a previous post, I don't need to repeat it. Also how did he go to grade school in Indonesia if American citizens were not allowed to go there?????

xrayspx's picture

I never said it was about grades, my questions were:

How did Biden pay for his education? How did Palin pay for her education? McCain paid for his by enlisting in the Navy, so that's open and shut.

How specifically did Clinton pay for his education? I was musing that Clinton might have been academic scholarships (largely) since he was a Rhodes Scholar after all.

I don't know or care about Obama's grade school experience in Indonesia. As I understand things, he went to some Catholic school there. Actually I'm wrong, the very last sentence of this CNN piece says it was 2 years in a muslim school (evidently NOT a "madrassa") and 2 years in Catholic school.

Does Indonesia supposedly prevent all foreigners from attending school there? Is their prohibition only against Americans? Following your logic, he would have to have been born in Indonesia. Do you have anything that outlines these laws?

"...The only thing that surprises me about your note is that he simply "got fired"..."

It was his contracting job (for architecture) that had him fired. It is up to the Army what happens next.

"...I pretty much expected him to end up in Leavenworth for disobeying his chain of command and refusing to deploy with his unit. Throw in a bunch of other sedition and treason type stuff the military likes to pile on as well..."

He knows exactly what he's doing: He volunteered for Afghanistan duty just 3 months ago, just as the fake birth certificate (C.O.L.B.) appeared at FactCheck.com.

Effectively, he volunteered to be posterboy for the "birthers".

"...I think he's lucky he got off with just losing his career. Did they give him Sec. 8 or did they just say "pack your bags and GTFO..."

He hasn't lost his career yet. The military has just been handed a hot potato—even bigger than John F. Kerry's missing form DD180. (Kerry never produced it, which would have quashed the general knowledge that Kerry received a military discharge that was less than an "Honorable-Discharge").

Giving Major Cook even more exposure can't be ignored by our one-party country and its State-run Obamedia. It could even become a stepping stone to political office.

I'm watching for more of our troops to join this suit as resentment of Obama enters the military.

I'm also saying this is not healthy for the country, but it's solely up to Obama to resolve a simmering issue of his own making.

Two hospitals claim his birth: Wikipedia entries have been flipping back and forth on just which hospital it was! Fake letters have been produced.

Whatever's on that long-form birth certificate must be worth crushing—rather than resolving—this resentment.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

How true is your last sentence, PTW!
x, I am not expect, I only know what I read or hear, as all of us do, however, my understanding is if he was an American citizen, he would not have been allowed to go to school in Indonesia. That is my only point.

I think he's lucky he got off with just losing his career. Did they give him Sec. 8 or did they just say "pack your bags and GTFO"?

The People found out last night that Obama had his security clearance revoked. That made Major Cook ineligible for work with that contractor to rebuild Afghanistan. The interview: http://www.wor710.com/pages/4819278

This is how it's done in ChicagoLand.

The word came out on news-talk show host Steve Malzberg's show. Ironically, Steve Malzberg was unrelenting in his attacks on the hapless Candidate Kerry in 2003. When Kerry lost, Malzberg was fired from WABC (New York City—where else?) and has since markedly toned down his show.

BTW: I don't know what "GTFO" means—perhaps that's a commonly-used phrase at Kos' Kids.

"The Kos" is a site I wouldn't willingly visit in the first place: Their use of such [probable foulspeech] phrases suggests an inadequacy of expression such as one finds among addled minds and the drug-addicted.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

For refusing to follow a direct order from your chain of command and refusing to deploy with your unit, well, aren't those kind of major crimes in the military?

I really, really wish I could get an honest out of you about what your thoughts would have been if an army Major had refused to deploy under Bush because the war was "unjust" in some way.

"Holy fuck burn the traitor, he should be buried UNDER Leavenworth". I can't even imagine how much foam would be dripping off your chin in that case.

"...For refusing to follow a direct order from your chain of command and refusing to deploy with your unit, well, aren't those kind of major crimes in the military...?"

For an enlisted man, it is. For an officer, it is less so.

An enlisted man could never have taken leave such as Lieutenant G.W. Bush (an officer) could, while with the TANG.

Major disagreements have been frequent among officers in wartime: General Patton really "worked the edge"—even with Eisenhower: Most were finessed through "contingencies".

As an officer, Major Stefan Cook got a "back door firing" when Obama revoked his security clearance.

Another Army officer overstepped his authority in Iraq by using an interrogation technique that wasn't approved. (Firing his pistol next to a insurgent's head).

That officer (Smith? An African-American) saved a half-dozen US troops by his "pistol-boarding", but eventually left the service.

(Unknown under what conditions he left).

"...I really, really wish I could get an honest [answer] out of you about what your thoughts would have been if an army Major had refused to deploy under Bush because the war was "unjust" in some way..."

I understand a contientious objector's position, although he should face some light punishment in peacetime. (Unpaid "Community Service" and restitution to the Gummint for his replacement).

In wartime, he should—IMHO—be jailed (also with restitution).

Elvis served and enhanced his stature among loyal Americans.

Cassius Clay went to jail rather than serve. (Which, except for training, didn't particularly harm his career).

The honest answer is that Cook believes Obama is an illegitimate Commander in Chief on the basis of questioned birth.

Cook's put his career on the line for that belief, and I salute him for "taking the hit" by himself. The outcome could spare this country more lives through BO's inept (but dangerous) executive mis-managements. (If that's all it is).

I don't know WHAT'S been hidden, and NOW I'd like to know.

I understand a contientious objector's position, although he should face some light punishment in peacetime. (Unpaid "Community Service" and restitution to the Gummint for his replacement).

I, being the worlds biggest coward, would do everything I could to avoid entering the military, even during a draft. Because I know that when it came down to it, I couldn't kill someone, and wouldn't want to provide logistics to those that do either. I know that, and hence would flee tail between my legs to anywhere that would have me.

That is not to say that I don't appreciate those that DO volunteer for this duty. However with that said, with that volunteerism comes the responsibility to follow the orders of the chain of command.

I'm glad you gave the distinction between the enlisted and NCO discipline. I would have thought it would be the inverse, though I can see why it's not. An enlisted man would generally need much harsher negative reinforcement than someone who is no longer obliged to stick around.

I didn't think there was that much leeway for officers though, where if they didn't want to go they could just say "no" and it would generally be all-right. I figured it's still got to be a court martial. I haven't read the specifics (long day), but off-hand, the security clearance revocation doesn't seem like it is that far out of whack. If you have a weapon, and you tell that weapon to do something, and it doesn't do it, do you still want to trust that weapon?

It seems like a pretty appropriate response, I'm surprised there's not a dishonorable discharge in his back pocket now too, at least.

NCOs are enlisted personnel.

If you did leave the country—rather than serve—I wouldn't have allowed a "Jimmy Carter" for you.

Someone else—with a 70% chance of being a Patriot with Republican proclivities—would be put in harm's way in your place. For too many, it was a passive "death penalty" against Americans served-up by—gasp—Liberals!

All senior military officers serve at the pleasure of the President and can be removed and, indeed, retired without cause. That Obama chose the "back door" shows his unwillingness to expose his long-form birth certificate weakness to America.

Did I just write "Weakness"?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

NCOs are enlisted personnel.

You get my point anyway. I've substituted prodigious drinking for lack of smoking, which leads to idiot typos like that.

I think there's a distinction to be made, I'm not necessarily unwilling to die for a cause, but I do know that I would be entirely unable to intentionally take a life and live with myself. So yeah, a stronger person than me would have to pull those triggers.

All senior military officers serve at the pleasure of the President and can be removed and, indeed, retired without cause. That Obama chose the "back door" shows his unwillingness to expose his long-form birth certificate weakness to America.

Straighten this out for me. Is he still in the military, albeit with reduced clearance now? Which caused him to lose private-sector work?

If he's still in the military, it would be prudent to pull the clearance while you figure out what to do with him. Are you going to dishonorably discharge him? Are you going to bury him under Guantanamo? What you have is a malfunctioning weapon, and you better put whatever safety you can on that weapon while you decide what you're going to do.

All senior military officers serve at the pleasure of the President and can be removed and, indeed, retired without cause. That Obama chose the "back door" shows his unwillingness to expose his long-form birth certificate weakness to America.

Yeah, wait...what?

How does this insubordinate soldier related to a document we all know exists, and has been certified by everyone in the state of Hawaii charged with certifying such things, up to the governor?

Peace_through_Weakness - a name that soars to new heights of ambiguity.

M. Heppelwhite

"...I'm not necessarily unwilling to die for a cause..."

That is clear: Abortion was your previous cause.

"...How does this insubordinate soldier related to a document we all know exists, and has been certified by everyone in the state of Hawaii charged with certifying such things, up to the governor...?"

By State of Hawaii law, the "Long-Form" birth certificate's contents can only be released to a relative or related ""interested party".

Obama is certainly among those.

"...Are you going to dishonorably discharge him?...Are you going to bury him under Guantanamo? What you have is a malfunctioning weapon, and you better put whatever safety you can on that weapon while you decide what you're going to do..."

Major Cook would oppose a dishonorable discharge in court—again bringing the long-form birth certificate back into the spotlight. (And not ignored, even by the state-run media).

Obama's thugs have safely put the issue onto the back burner. I think Major Cook's safe from that. (And Major Cook was willing to risk it all anyway).

"...If he's still in the military, it would be prudent to pull the clearance while you figure out what to do with him..."

What for? Americans should be allowed "redress" in court for most anything. A Federal judge has agreed to hear Major Cook's case.

Major Cook couldn't be fired—outright—without bringing Obama's long-form birth certificate question into the spotlight of national news.

The security clearance revocation was done by Washington thuggery, Chicago-style.

"...Straighten this out for me. Is he still in the military, albeit with reduced clearance now? Which caused him to lose private-sector work?..."

A security clearance was required for Major Cook's association with architectural work with a private-sector contractor hired by the Army. (Building schools in Afghanistan).

When Obama's Washington thugs pulled Major Cook's clearance, his private-sector contractor couldn't continue to retain him.

"...I do know that I would be entirely unable to intentionally take a life and live with myself. So yeah, a stronger person than me would have to pull those triggers..."

1) In the memories of many living Americans, you would then be willing to live under the boot of Hitler's National Socialism.

(You have no idea how close the Allies came to losing that war. Ask any Veteran how Government runs things—and how more Government workers will make it worse).

2) As I once asked Dragonfly, I ask you:

QUOTE:

"What would you have done with the rifle handed you by General George Washington?"

"...I've substituted prodigious drinking for lack of smoking, which leads to idiot typos like that..."

"NCO" is what you typed. What did you intend to type?

-> OK, you can skip that question.

Peace_through_Weakness - a name that soars to new heights of ambiguity.

Google it: "Peace through Weakness" is an essay that came up at the same time that this site came up.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

By State of Hawaii law, the "Long-Form" birth certificate's contents can only be released to a relative or related ""interested party".

Obama is certainly among those.

Major Cook would oppose a dishonorable discharge in court—again bringing the long-form birth certificate back into the spotlight. (And not ignored, even by the state-run media).

Obama's thugs have safely put the issue onto the back burner. I think Major Cook's safe from that. (And Major Cook was willing to risk it all anyway).

Ok, the theory has been put forth that even if Obama went ahead and requested his original birth certificate from the state, and released it to the world, that at this point, that wouldn't be enough. There would continue to be forgery charges by the likes of WND.

I did see that this was brought up by a non-fringe-site wackjob, Lou Dobbs of CNN. Personally, I think the right is wasting a lot of time on the subject of someone who is clearly American, and could be spending all this time complaining about things that actually matter.

A lot of credibility is being lost here needlessly. If he releases the damn thing, all this anger is going to move over to his financial aid records and scholarship information. It's not going to end, you know that, so why should he bother?

What would have made the state health department of Hawaii conspire in 1964 to release birth announcements to two newspapers? I know you feel that both Snopes and Factcheck.org are biased in various ways, but really, the document is real. The state says it's real, it's got to end.

I'd still love to have seen your opinion if an Army Major had decided "Iraq is unjust, I'm not going, and in fact, I'm going to sue president Bush for trying to make me".

There wouldn't be a hole deep enough.

I'm also still waiting for Tis to show me Bill Clinton's scholarship and financial aid documentation, along with those of Palin and Biden. Show me how any of that has ever been a litmus test to be president?

If you want to complain about something "real", as I've said in the past, complain about the fact that the Obamas would have almost certainly lost everything they (didn't really) own in this financial crisis by mortgaging their home way past their means so they could live like people making double what they do.

If not for the nearly Deus Ex Machina of Barack becoming The One and making crazy book money, and then becoming president, it's likely they would have been unable to cover their losses in this mess.

That guy is now setting financial policy for a country. Complain about that.

(of course, you should note, that I'll come back with a string of senseless McCain quotes showing his lack of economic knowledge)

At least McCain was smart enough to marry up.

Google it: "Peace through Weakness" is an essay that came up at the same time that this site came up.

I read that when you joined the site and changed from Chipmunk Whisperer. The nuclear reductions seem to be afoot.

You should start a thread about that. Were you particularly interested in nuclear policy, or did the "peace through weakness" tagline just strike your fancy?

x. I could care about Clinton's, Palin's records etc. If they matter to you, why don't you search for them? I ONLY care about Obama's to prove if he did or did not receive aid as a foreign student. I could care if he graduated at the bottom of his class. I just want proof that he is a citizen.

xrayspx's picture

You're holding him to a different standard than other presidents. The burden of proof in these cases is on the person making the accusation.

For instance, what evidence is being offered to back up the claim that he illegally applied for financial aid as a foreign national? My gut tells me this is idle speculation from some wingnut somewhere that is now demanding facts be provided in refutation.

I could be wrong, it's been known to happen, but where does this accusation stem from?

And what then? He opens his entire financial history to review, showing that he never did what he's accused of, and then so what, you demand to see every drivers license and passport ever issued to the man to prove he never had a foreign passport?

It's just about at the level of "Show me the papers that prove that these are your papers". We require backing documentation proving that the documentation you've given is your documentation.

This could recurse until the cows come home.

No, that's not true x. He is not being held to a different standard. Other presidents and candidates have released their papers, even McCain did. That is what makes you wonder. What does he have to hide? Add that to the fact that his own grandmother insisted he was born in Kenya.

xrayspx's picture

He released a state-issued document from the state of Hawaii showing that he was born in Hawaii. The governor of that state, while having a vested interest in the OTHER guy winning the election, has certified that everything is above-board with regard to Obama's citizenship.

Are you looking for either the mysterious "long form" Hawaii Birth Certificate or financial aid documentation, or are you looking for both?

If the birth certificate is made public, does that make the college tuition documentation go away?

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