Oh, I get it now

xrayspx's picture

I see where the rabid, anti-logic right gets their figures now. Since no one I discuss such things with will quote sources, I'm forced to make them up and quote as necessary.

In the following video, we see a prominent "Conservativedontyoudarecallmearepublicanimaconservativedammit" speaking about the murder of Dr. George Tiller in his own church. It should be noted that this particular prominent talking head called out Dr. Tiller more than 25 times on national TV as a murderer and said "[I]f I could get my hands on Tiller -- well, you know. Can't be vigilantes. Can't do that. It's just a figure of speech.". Sounds kind of like "If I could be in the basement of the white house with a truck full of fertilizer, well, you know, can't be vigilantes, wink wink nudge-the-fuck-nudge" to me.

In any case, the claim was made in the below video that Dr. George Tiller, prior to being gunned down in his own church, performed 60,000 abortions. Let us do a quick bit of napkin-math on that shall we? For the purpose of this argument, we will discount the time we know he was out of commission, after having been shot in '93 and his clinic blown up in '86 by Right Wing Not-Terrorists (according to some who believe it's damn near impossible for American Whites to be terrorists)...We'll assume he worked with a scalpel in his teeth out of an Airstream and maintained 5 days a week, 10 hours a day like a real trooper.

George Tiller was, at the time of his murder, 67 years old. In 1970/1971 he took over his fathers medical practice, all the while intending to go be a dermatologist somewhere. It was hearing about a woman dying during an illegal abortion that prompted him to maintain the family practice instead.

So let us take 38 years as a nice round number that he was "in the practice", I don't know when he started performing abortions however. Probably right around the time it became legal, but we'll assume it was 1971, Jan 1. That gives us 13,879 days to work with counting leap days and assuming a full 2009, which we know won't happen. If we discard Saturdays and Sundays over the course of the 38 year period which was cut short 1/3 into the 38th year, and assuming he immediately started performing abortions the minute Dad died, that gives us 98,800 hours to work within. So assuming 10 hours/day, we have one abortion every 1.64 hours, or like every 100 minutes.

That assumes this guy took no vacations, never rested, never filled out paperwork, never took a lunch break. That's 10 hours a day, nonstop, no vacations, for 38 straight years.

You're right Bill, the guy was fucking Mengele. Or, you're a liar, pick one:

I especially love the quote about the moron from the Daily Kos, with an ad (google ad no doubt) advertising an interview with Bill Ayers. Well, let's count the death toll. Bill Ayers, zero. huh. How "perfect" is that you bloated weasel.

"...according to some who believe it's damn near impossible for American Whites to be terrorists)...We'll assume he worked with a scalpel in his teeth out of an Airstream and maintained 5 days a week, 10 hours a day like a real trooper..."

1) Why is race part of Terror?

2) You might be interested in learning that there are Russian physicians who can, as individuals, perform eye surgery on scores of patients every hour.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

1) Why is race part of Terror?

Because when a black, unaffiliated recent muslim convert kills an Army Pvt. he is a terrorist, but when a white man walks in to a church and starts gunning people down, he is not a terrorist, per our earlier discussions.

2) You might be interested in learning that there are Russian physicians who can, as individuals, perform eye surgery on scores of patients every hour.

Remind me not to go to Russia for major surgery. And by "scores", I hope you're really exaggerating, since min. 40 operations on different people per hour doesn't even leave time to change gloves.

There is zero chance this guy actually aborted 60,000 fetuses, total, let alone 60,000 "late term, casual abortions". He'd have a wicked case of tennis elbow if nothing else.

"...And by "scores", I hope you're really exaggerating, since min. 40 operations on different people per hour doesn't even leave time to change gloves..."

That Russian surgeon doesn't need to change gloves: his system is highly organized with others for a rarely-seen efficiency in Russia—just as I would expect "Dr. Abortion" would have done with his practice.

"...when a black, unaffiliated recent muslim convert kills an Army Pvt. he is a terrorist..."

When did we stop becoming aware of Muslim Terror?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

"That Russian surgeon doesn't need to change gloves: his system is highly organized with others for a rarely-seen efficiency in Russia—just as I would expect "Dr. Abortion" would have done with his practice."

Speaking of Dr. Fyodorov, that Russian surgeon hasn't done anything since 2000, when he died in a helicopter crash. However, his technique allowed a team to treat "up to 40 patients in a shift". In the US, you could assume a shift to mean 8 to 10 hours, or 4.2 patients/hour. In Soviet Russia, I have no idea how long a shift was

You also make the assumption that the volume of patients is enough to keep up with such a schedule. 60,000 "Casual, late-term abortions" requires 60,000 patients. Bill's number also doesn't count the "Non-Casual, 1st trimester abortions", for that matter.

When did we stop becoming aware of Muslim Terror?

Not saying we did, however we seem to be unaware of non-muslim terror, which is the point I was actually going for.

I've been unaware of his demise.

"...Russian television reported that he had clinics in Italy, Poland and Yemen, and a clinic on board a ship cruising the Mediterranean..."

Are we counting, solely, the eye surgeries that he did by himself?

"...we seem to be unaware of non-muslim terror, which is the point I was actually going for..."

'You think the many survivors of the many races, creeds, and colors of "the 3000 Dead" sense terror from non-Muslims?

Do the rest of us sense terror from non-Muslims?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

If I was a Democratic party leader in the south, I might look over my shoulder when strangers show up in the office, after the last guy got shot.

If I was a member of a so-called "Liberal" church in Knoxville, then I would have been quite wary of strangers in my church in the weeks following the shootings there.

And if I were a doctor performing abortions, after all the bombings, shootings and vandalism, then yes, I would be "terrorized". I know that many of those folks tend to wear Kevlar in the wake of such incidents due to the possibility of a copy-cat.

Remember, what this man did for a living was perfectly legal, he was just a guy going about his life.

To return to the statistical impossibility of Mr Tiller's achievement:

Using Fox's own website, we learn that of the 1.6MM abortions performed nationally each year, only 100 are 3rd trimester, and only 9% of the rest are second trimester.

Edit: I forgot to include the link to Fox. Other interesting stats are there, nearly half of American women will have an abortion sometime in their lives. Forty Three Percent. Think about that number, this isn't some lunatic fringe of activists having abortions. In a country where 76% of us self-identify as Christian, a large number of those people are having these abortions.
/Edit

So assuming O'Reilly dubiously included both 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions as "Late Term", we can see that that is only 10% of the average load.

That means that the figure of 60,000 "Casual, Late Term abortions" becomes 660,000 total abortions. There were only 252,000 total hours (not work hours, hours) in Tiller's 30 year career. I did not count leap days.

Assuming O'Reilly includes gestation periods of > 1 day in his figure, meaning that any abortion performed after the moment of conception, and thus all abortions are "Late Term" and "Casual", we still must be mindful of the fact that the greater Wichita area only has 127,000 people, total. Of which we can assume a rough 50/50 split men and women, and some percentage of children.

Are you telling me that every single woman in Wichita has had an abortion and that they all went to one doctor? The entire population of Kansas is only 2.8MM, so this guy performed abortions for 4.2% of the states female population?

Give.

It.

Up.

Honestly, this was not the debate I was expecting from this thread. I was expecting some attempt to legitimize or dilute the stated figure, or a claim that what was said, wasn't. I was not expecting "Of course I believe 60,000 abortions by one guy, what's the problem"?

Here's the O'Reilly quote which leads one to believe that Tiller should have been harmed in some way, in Bill's mind:

If you want to skip all the normal smarmy ass-hattery, just go to 2:40. The leadup is worth the listen though:

O'Reilly calling out a newspaper for their statement that O'Reilly deemed a girl's mental health risk "insufficient" to justify her abortion.

I saw no problem with that quote, except that Bill would obviously have wanted it worded more along the lines of "Bill O'Reilly pointed out that clinical depression is an insufficient excuse ...". Something to make it sound like he was speaking Truth. He's not a doctor, so in Bill O'Reilly's opinion as a highly-qualified media pundit, having never met the patient, she should have sucked it up and taken it like a man and had the kid.

Nope, sorry.

"...If I was a Democratic party leader in the south, I might look over my shoulder when strangers show up in the office, after the last guy got shot...."

If I was a Democrat-party leader anywhere, I'd be terrorized that the party is aborting itself into recruiting foreign immigrants for any voting viability.

"...If I was a member of a so-called "Liberal" church in Knoxville, then I would have been quite wary of strangers in my church in the weeks following the shootings there...."

If I was a member of a church or synagogue anywhere, I'd be wary.

Mosques got much encouragement from Barack Hussein Obama, who apologized—in Cairo—for American "mistakes".

And if I were a doctor performing abortions, after all the bombings, shootings and vandalism, then yes, I would be "terrorized". I know that many of those folks tend to wear Kevlar in the wake of such incidents due to the possibility of a copy-cat..."

Bank robbers and dope-peddlars wear Kevlar. Your military wore armor to keep Americans from being killed.

Odd, isn't it, that abortionists should wear armor in order to continue to kill Americans?

"...Remember, what this man did for a living was perfectly legal, he was just a guy going about his life...."

It's legal just as "keeping every fish you catch" and "fishing off the beds" is legal. Most practice "catch-and-release" to conserve—if not preserve—a species.

1) Thanks to billboards showing the de-limbed and otherwise mutilated bodies of "The Unborn", there is a growing movement against the killings of "The Unborn". These numbers include the gal who started it all: The "Roe" in Roe-v-Wade.

2) And at least one American who survived a legal abortion under Roe-v-Wade.

3) As an Illinois Senator, Obama voted to allow to die anyone undergoing this "legal surgery". (to die in a closet, if available).

4) I believe all of those 63M bodies were Constitutionally-deprived of their right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"! How about that?

"...To return to the statistical impossibility of Mr Tiller's achievement:..."

and

Are you telling me that every single woman in Wichita has had an abortion and that they all went to one doctor? The entire population of Kansas is only 2.8MM, so this guy performed abortions for 4.2% of the states female population? Give. It. Up.

1) A Democrat can have 10 or more children in her lifetime. How does one attribute your previous "facts" in the light of that [apparent] revelation?

2) Most abortions occur among African-Americans.

3) The Democrats should start ACORN on a task to legitimize the Illegal voter and registering The Dead on the voter rolls.

Oh, wait.

"...In a country where 76% of us self-identify as Christian, a large number of those people are having these abortions..."

1) Teens who don't identify with Christians regret abortions forced on them:

http://www.teenbreaks.com/abortion/girlswhoaborted.cfm

2) As just stated, the greatest abortion-loss to a demographic occurs among African-Americans.

While most black church members in the South are devout Christians, (who would be expected to oppose the killings of "The Unborn" and "Homosexual Marriage") we have Northern churches like Reverend Wright's "Black-Power-Church" to which Obama belonged. (Never having heard his pastor give racist rants IN 20 years).

3) If I were Obama's children—and viewed Obama's dead-straight pro-abortion Illinois voting record—I'd count my lucky stars that I was alive at all—and never to be "punished" BY having a child.

4) Isn't xrayspx delighted that his mother decided not to abort him?

5) Dragonfly supported her mother's right to aborting her, and never answered that question either.

6) Try to "think it through" before answering. (Keeping in mind that "Life is Good").

7) BTW: -> How could YOU look Ana Rosa Rodriguez
in the eye?

Ana Rosa Rodriguez:

"...Look at the picture of Ana Rosa Rodriguez on the left.

"At first glance, she might look like an average little girl to you. However, if you look closely, you'll notice that this child is missing her right arm. That's because her arm was ripped off in the process of an abortion on New York's Lower East Side in October of 1991. Ana Rosa was 32 weeks old at the time of the abortion. It was performed by legal abortionist Abu Hayat.

"Rosa, Ana Rosa's mother (who was only 20 years old at the time), had told Hayat that she had changed her mind and didn’t want to go through with the abortion.

"He said that it was impossible to stop, that I had to continue," Rosa told New York Newsday. According to Rosa, Hayat’s assistants held her down while he sedated her. When she awoke, she was told that the abortion was incomplete and that she should come back the following day. That evening, however, she experienced increasing pain and bleeding. Her mother took her to Jamaica Hospital by taxi, where, five hours later, baby Ana Rosa was born. Aside from the loss of her right arm, Ana Rosa is a perfectly healthy little girl.

"As unfortunate as the maiming of Ana Rosa was, she and her mother are very lucky..."

8) More survivors not to look in the eye:

http://joseromia.tripod.com/survivors.html

"...I was not expecting "Of course I believe 60,000 abortions by one guy, what's the problem"...?"

1) How many minutes did he participate in each "surgery"?

2) How many "surgeries" were conducted under his tutelage by other "surgeons"?

3) On how many Democrats had he conducted his "surgeries" over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over again?

"...If you want to skip all the normal smarmy ass-hattery, just go to 2:40. The leadup is worth the listen though...:"

Those of us on dial-up experience a general slowdown of other computer functions and can wait as long as ½-hour for YouTube to load; all the while suffering the inconvenience of an even-slower computer.

There should be a transcript of those last seconds. Try that, unless there is something that follows that shows a loss of context—in which case, I'm not interested.

"...O'Reilly calling out a newspaper for their statement that O'Reilly deemed a girl's mental health risk "insufficient" to justify her abortion...I saw no problem with that quote, except that Bill would obviously have wanted it worded more along the lines of "Bill O'Reilly pointed out that clinical depression is an insufficient excuse ...". Something to make it sound like he was speaking Truth. He's not a doctor, so in Bill O'Reilly's opinion as a highly-qualified media pundit, having never met the patient, she should have sucked it up and taken it like a man and had the kid..."

1) Adult women do suffer with "what could have been".

2) Obama, you may recall, stated that "having a child was punishment".

3) Excepting "Err-America", Bill O'Reilly IS LAST among radio pundits.

4) Why not quote someone FAR more popular—FAR MORE difficult to dismiss—like Limbaugh and Beck?

»

Peace_through_Weakness

OK CW SO what question didn't I answer about my mothers right to abort me?

You were asked about a year ago, "Would you support your own mother's right to be pro-abortion?"

The answer would have put your very existence in jeopardy. (And you couldn't bring yourself to answer—just as xrayspx can't answer it either).

BTW: Could YOU look Ana Rosa Rodriguez in the eye AND support her abortion at the same time?

Would you at least apologize for her missing arm?

The answer would have put your very existence in jeopardy. (And you couldn't bring yourself to answer—just as xrayspx can't answer it either).

Sure I do.

If I was a Democrat-party leader anywhere, I'd be terrorized that the party is aborting itself into recruiting foreign immigrants for any voting viability.

That doesn't make sense, I don't know who is being accused of what there.

Bank robbers and dope-peddlars wear Kevlar. Your military wore armor to keep Americans from being killed.

Odd, isn't it, that abortionists should wear armor in order to continue to kill Americans?

Bank robbery and drug dealing are illegal activities, and bank robbers are protecting themselves from things like security guards, and police. The fact that doctors feel frightened enough by these terrorists that they can't perform their legal work without body armor is disgusting to me. Doctors feel the need to protect themselves against ideological nutjobs. There is a world of difference here.

1) Thanks to billboards showing the de-limbed and otherwise mutilated bodies of "The Unborn", there is a growing movement against the killings of "The Unborn". These numbers include the gal who started it all: The "Roe" in Roe-v-Wade.

I know, and it's irrelevant that she changed her mind, though she is perfectly within her right to do so.

2) Most abortions occur among African-Americans.

You misstate this twice in your post. I thought that by providing statistics from Fox.com you might actually read them. To quote:

"Eighty percent of women having abortions are single; 60 percent are white; 35 percent are black."

Wrong.

3) Excepting "Err-America", Bill O'Reilly IS LAST among radio pundits.

But he has a very high TV rating, I don't think I limited myself to "radio pundit", I think I said "highly-qualified media pundit", and even still, in the context of the sentence, what difference do his ratings make? Regardless of ratings, someone with 20 years of experience in front of a camera makes him "highly experienced".

Wrong.

I don't think that a parent (grandmother) should be able to force her dauther (baby's mother) to have an abortion against her will. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some patient consent form that the daughter would have to sign of her own free will to have the procedure.

I can see a mom saying "you're getting an abortion or you are no longer welcome in my house", which isn't the same. It was then the daughters choice between having the baby and either keeping it or giving it up for adoption, or continuing to live in the house.

It's a jerky move, but some parents can be jerks, viz the guy who beat his kid to death on Father's Day, or the other guy who recently skipped Father's Day with his kids to go cheat on his wife.

"...Sure I do..."

What does that mean???

Xrayspx would approve of your mother's abortion of yourself?

What Altruism!

I applaud xrayspx' Dogma for that!

BTW:

You'll notice that I answered each and every point in xrayspx' last post; however, you brushed off several of mine.

Here's a repeat to xrayspx and Dragonfly:

"How could xrayspx come face-to-face with Rosa—a survivor of a "Legal" abortion—and tell her that her abortion was a needed and correct 'surgery'?"

(Sorry about that missing arm, though). :rolleyes3:

Another:

"...I was not expecting "Of course I believe 60,000 abortions by one guy, what's the problem"...?"

1) How many minutes or seconds did he participate in each "surgery"?

2) How many "surgeries" were conducted under his tutelage by other "surgeons"?

3) On how many Democrats had he conducted his "surgeries" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, again?

Another:

Obama stated that "pregnancy is 'a punishment'".

Do the mothers of xrayspx and Dragonfly agree with Obama's assessment of motherhood?

OK, continuing onwards:

"...If I was a Democrat-party leader anywhere, I'd be terrorized that the party is aborting itself into recruiting foreign immigrants for any voting viability..."
"...That doesn't make sense, I don't know who is being accused of what there..."

1) Through abortions (and in the support of "Homosexual Rights"), the Dims are aborting their future voters, and (like Homosexuals) must recruit.

2) If you've never seen the video, last year a politician addressed a California news conference—open to a public crowd—and stated that "they doan' need papers!" (This was in answer to one Illegal's question of the "rights of Illegals" voting in US elections).

[Sadly, in order to vote Democrats into virtually-unopposed power over OPM.]

3) ACORN gathered millions of such voters before and after that California mis-speak, and has already thrown one election.

4) With Billion$ in new "Stimulus" OPM money-grants they'll be retaining Our-Dear-Leader-For-Life in power for decades. (With fingers-out for OPM).

:rolleyes4:

"...Bank robbery and drug dealing are illegal activities, and bank robbers are protecting themselves from things like security guards, and police. The fact that doctors feel frightened enough by these terrorists that they can't perform their legal work without body armor is disgusting to me. Doctors feel the need to protect themselves against ideological nutjobs. There is a world of difference here..."

1) "Killing of the Unborn" is only one Supreme Court Justice away from becoming ILLEGAL.

2) One very-lost point of mine was that xrayspx ostensibly supports the troops in the killing of America's enemies: yet supports abortionists in the mass-killings of America's "Unborn" innocents. If America's "Unborn" were allowed to vote, how would they be voting?

In order to be consistent, is it killing "Enemies" or killing "Innocents"—whose killing side is xrayspx on, anyway?

Dragonfly will say she's "too busy to answer". :rolleyes5:

"...These numbers include the gal who started it all: The "Roe" in Roe-v-Wade...I know, and it's irrelevant that she changed her mind, though she is perfectly within her right to do so..."

So xrayspx agrees that some women (and perhaps a few Republican women) face life-long recriminations when killing their own offspring-"The Unborn"?

"...Most abortions occur among African-Americans. You misstate this twice in your post. I thought that by providing statistics from Fox.com you might actually read them. To quote: "Eighty percent of women having abortions are single; 60 percent are white; 35 percent are black." Wrong..."

Why is it "Wrong"?

Abortionists restrict the demographic growth (and therefore the voter-base) of African-American issues far more than whites. You support such a disenfranchisement?

"...Excepting "Err-America", Bill O'Reilly IS LAST among radio pundits. But he has a very high TV rating, I don't think I limited myself to "radio pundit", I think I said "highly-qualified media pundit", and even still, in the context of the sentence, what difference do his ratings make? Regardless of ratings, someone with 20 years of experience in front of a camera makes him "highly experienced". Wrong..."

Why is it "Wrong"?

TV is overwhelmingly PC: Radio is definitively not.

O'Reilly has thrown in the towel while trying to keep up with Rush, Hannity, and Beck—among a few thousand in the radio/talk hosting business.

O'Reilly quit Talk-Radio!

Xrayspx would select the weakest of those hosts with whom to disagree?

"...I don't think that a parent (grandmother) should be able to force her daughter (baby's mother) to have an abortion against her will..."
"...I'd be surprised if there wasn't some patient consent form that the daughter would have to sign of her own free will to have the procedure..."

This varies among the states—as it should, constitutionally.

"...I can see a mom saying "you're getting an abortion or you are no longer welcome in my house", which isn't the same. It was then the daughters choice between having the baby and either keeping it or giving it up for adoption, or continuing to live in the house. It's a jerky move, but some parents can be jerks, viz the guy who beat his kid to death on Father's Day, or the other guy who recently skipped Father's Day with his kids to go cheat on his wife..."

Like encouraging slavery, it's always wrong to encourage the killing of The Unborn.

BTW: It's possible to kill an infant without having to go through all that courtroom rigmarole—and all that other stuff with the law. In Civil Court, our American lawyers have determined that a dead infant isn't worth beans.

1) I'd think a Constitutional-American (like I presume xrayspx might become) would be more concerned that a South Carolina newspaper would save its capture of Mark Sanford's e-mails for six months!

(In order for just one member of the ObaMedia to deflect recent criticisms of the snowballing of BOTH national and international weaknesses of a Socialist U.S. President). :rolleyes6:

This media-subterfuge is worthy of an American
Ministry of Truth!>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

Xrayspx would approve of your mother's abortion of yourself?

Yes, especially if the choice came down to one of my mom dying due to her pregnancy with me. If it was determined that her health was at risk, and I would be non-functional, then why risk the life of a living breathing human for the life of an unknown?

If a fetus is shown to have serious birth defects, such that the born baby, such as it is, might stand a shot at living, in agony, for a couple of months on life support, then why should that child be born? Why put it through the trauma of life? Why spend THOUSANDS of dollars (Be it insurance costs, which will drive up everyone elses insurance payments, or your so-called OPM) to keep a malfunctioning child alive?

I can think of many reasons which are perfectly logical for such a decision. As I've said before, I personally wouldn't want for my wife/girlfriend/whoever to have it done just because they don't feel like being pregnant, however.

I personally wouldn't want my mother to suffer just so I could be born. I also wouldn't want her to be burdened with a child that needs to be hooked up to a bunch of machines at the cost of my mom's own future and lots of cash.

You're not addressing all of my points either. Any time I make a point on a subject based on things like "facts", you drop that line of argument and pick another.

For instance, you've equated bank-robbers and drug-dealers to abortion doctors. My point is that what these doctors do is currently legal. They should not be in fear for their /lives/ over their legal job. A murdered abortion doctor is a victim of terrorism.

You make the point that Roe v. Wade may someday be overturned. Good, then it will be /illegal/ for these doctors to perform abortions, and any who continue will have to answer, to the police. They still shouldn't have to answer to vigilante nutjobs.

Are you a death penalty supporter? Which "right to life" do you choose? This is a topic which drives many Catholics away from the party, btw, since many Republicans believe in the right of a fetus to its life, while killing criminals. Catholic teachings dictate that no one should be "put to death", for any reason. So they work toward "abortion reduction" and providing options for those mothers who don't want to keep their babies.

"...Most abortions occur among African-Americans. You misstate this twice in your post. I thought that by providing statistics from Fox.com you might actually read them. To quote: "Eighty percent of women having abortions are single; 60 percent are white; 35 percent are black." Wrong..."

Why is it "Wrong"?

Your statement "Most abortions occur among African-Americans" - is wrong. It is not factual, according to statistics, provided helpfully in this case by Fox, 60 percent of women having abortions are white. Unless you think that a statistically-anomalous percentage of women having abortions are white south-african immigrants, you cannot reconcile your statement with fact.

Therefore, your statement is "wrong".

"...Excepting "Err-America", Bill O'Reilly IS LAST among radio pundits. But he has a very high TV rating, I don't think I limited myself to "radio pundit", I think I said "highly-qualified media pundit", and even still, in the context of the sentence, what difference do his ratings make? Regardless of ratings, someone with 20 years of experience in front of a camera makes him "highly experienced". Wrong..."

Why is it "Wrong"?

My statement was that "Bill O'Reilly is a highly qualified media pundit". You said "His radio ratings suck, in fact, he quit". I didn't say he was a huge radio success, I said nothing about ratings or him being successful until my reply to your incorrect statement.

20 years of industry experience makes you "highly qualified", it does not make you successful.

Fox News is not what one would consider "Politically Correct", O'Reilly and Beck in particular.

My original argument was that O'Reilly seems to feel that his experience as a media personality somehow justifies him in making medical judgments about someone's mental state. It does not.

-- I have to work now. I'll catch back up later on --

xrayspx's picture

I've referenced this before, you've forgotten, I'll post it again:

From Factcheck:

"The bill does include funds for which ACORN would be eligible to compete - against hundreds of other groups. But most is for a housing rehabilitation program ACORN says it never applied for in the past and won't in the future."

Read the rest yourself. There aren't "Billions of dollars going to Acorn".

reply to your other drumbeat:
"How could xrayspx come face-to-face with Rosa—a survivor of a "Legal" abortion—and tell her that her abortion was a needed and correct 'surgery'?"

My statement to her would probably be along the lines of "wow, that really sucks, I'm sorry to hear it".

My response isn't to try to SHOOT the doctor who performed it, or to blow up his clinic.

In case you've missed the topic of this thread, it's that O'Reilly in particular is making gross misstatements, and inciting people to violence.

The way to resolve this is through legislation. Seriously, donate money, get the law changed, make it illegal. I disagree with that stance, but at least it's a rational way to approach the issue.

This thread is not about the "rightness and wrongness" of abortion. This thread is about the appropriate way to deal with those with whom we disagree.

It is inappropriate to kill someone who is going about his life working at his legal job.

The debate over whether abortion is right or wrong is another PTW strawman.

"...This thread is not about the "rightness and wrongness" of abortion. This thread is about the appropriate way to deal with those with whom we disagree...The debate over whether abortion is right or wrong is another PTW strawman..."

OK. I won't discuss slavery's merits either.

"...I've referenced this before, you've forgotten, I'll post it again:From Factcheck..."

"Factcheck", when asked to certify BO's birth certificate, produced instead "A Certificate of Live Birth", and pronounced BO a legitimate president. The "Certificate of Live Birth" was printed in 2007!

What credibility does Factcheck have now?

Pronouncing ACORN "innocent" reminds me of the NYTs calling Fidel Castro "an Agrarian Reformer" in 1960.

"...My statement to her [Rosa] would probably be along the lines of "wow, that really sucks, I'm sorry to hear it"..."

That she barely survived a normal, legal, procedure? Or that she's missing an arm due to an abortionist going about his normal, daily—and especially legal,—life?

Mechanical destruction of The Unborn is also done through a vacuum and a tube. Use of the word "sucks" to an individual who "cheated Death" would be thoughtless.

Either way, that's not just a rude response, it's a fully insensitive human response to Rosa's "Life-as-a-Human-Being".

"...It is inappropriate to kill someone who is going about his life working at his legal job..."

Yet it happens every day.

Thanks to Liberal "thought" against The Death Penalty, too many are released to kill innocents again and again—if they were ever found guilty in the first place. (Or "exonerated"—when found guilty).

"...Your statement "Most abortions occur among African-Americans" - is wrong. It is not factual, according to statistics, provided helpfully in this case by Fox, 60 percent of women having abortions are white. Unless you think that a statistically-anomalous percentage of women having abortions are white south-african immigrants, you cannot reconcile your statement with fact...Therefore, your statement is "wrong"..."

You're up against that portion of US demographics among Latino/Black and Latino/White: Those from US Caribbean possessions—a significant demographic stateside as well— seldom "see themselves" (as permitted by US Census forms) as Latino/Black.

According to http://www.nbccongress.org/features/abortion_silent_no_more_01.asp , 35% of abortions are conducted among only 12% of a U. S. population demographic. Those percentages speak volumes as to the use of Hitlerian "eugenics" permitted by Liberal "thought", with ample support from TPD—"The Party of Death".

Are you a death penalty supporter...?"

Absolutely, and Death can't take place too quickly in too many cases:

1) Charles Manson can still apply for parole every year because he was not executed.

2) Even Texas can take a decade to execute the most villainous of murderers.

3) The guy who knifed Monica Seles never served a day: Monica said she would never enter that country again.

And some US Supreme Court Justices would quote foreign law into their decisions!

"...My response isn't to try to SHOOT the doctor who performed it, or to blow up his clinic..."

Mine, neither.

Those acts, like Bill Ayers' bombings, are criminal. Thanks to Bill Clinton*, domestic bombers get passes—especially to friends of BO.

"...The way to resolve this is through legislation. Seriously, donate money, get the law changed, make it illegal. I disagree with that stance, but at least it's a rational way to approach the issue..."

There's too much money to be made by TPD.

Church groups in particular are currently being hounded by the ACLU and Big/Socialist Government.

The way for change is, as you say, through the voting booth—just as in California with "Marriage" among Homosexuals, and with Massachusetts—also with "Marriage" among Homosexuals.

No, wait...

Yes, especially if the choice came down to one of my mom dying due to her pregnancy with me. If it was determined that her health was at risk, and I would be non-functional, then why risk the life of a living breathing human for the life of an unknown...If a fetus is shown to have serious birth defects, such that the born baby...might stand a shot at living, in agony, for a couple of months on life support, then why should that child be born...Why put it through the trauma of life? Why spend THOUSANDS of dollars (Be it insurance costs, which will drive up everyone elses insurance payments, or your so-called OPM) to keep a malfunctioning child alive...?"

TPD also supports Hitlerian euthanasia: When OPM is used to terminate the elderly, the evils in our national turn to Socialism raises its ugly head—just as it did under the Nazi's National Socialism.

I personally wouldn't want my mother to suffer just so I could be born.

You're too late with that message!

Maybe she didn't get an ultrasound: surely, they could have found something!

"...I can think of many reasons which are perfectly logical for such a decision. As I've said before, I personally wouldn't want for my wife/girlfriend/whoever to have it done just because they don't feel like being pregnant, however..."

Yet the "Punishment of Pregnancy" is asserted by BO.

As Ronald Reagan once said, "Those who vote for abortion are breathing freely..."

WTTE...

"...Any time I make a point on a subject based on things like "facts", you drop that line of argument and pick another...For instance, you've equated bank-robbers and drug-dealers to abortion doctors. My point is that what these doctors do is currently legal..."

It's "legal" to ski-board naked, bicycle naked, motorcycle naked and walk around naked in Vermont—a stronghold of Liberal "thought".

On New Jersey's public roadways, you can change into wetsuits—exposing yourselves "legally".

Like abortion, I find many "legal" activities offensive. "Legal" abortion in particular, is morally reprehensible.

"...In case you've missed the topic of this thread, it's that O'Reilly in particular is making gross misstatements, and inciting people to violence..."

How could the topic have evolved otherwise?

I don't have a working TV, wouldn't watch his show anyway, haven't watched TV since 9/11, and haven't been provided a copy of the O'Reilly transcript.

Why should I support someone so unpopular with the MSM, anyway?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

"Factcheck", when asked to certify BO's birth certificate, produced instead "A Certificate of Live Birth", and pronounced BO a legitimate president. The "Certificate of Live Birth" was printed in 2007!

Please read the entire stimulus bill and show me the passage in which Acorn is granted $5bn. The fact that you don't like Factcheck doesn't make the FACT any less valid. The section of the bill that allocates money for which Acorn is allowed to compete is not exclusive to them. They are competing against hundreds of other organizations, and the money is allocated for a purpose that they've never competed for in the past, and have no intention of competing now.

That she barely survived a normal, legal, procedure? Or that she's missing an arm due to an abortionist going about his normal, daily—and especially legal,—life?

Mechanical destruction of The Unborn is also done through a vacuum and a tube. Use of the word "sucks" to an individual who "cheated Death" would be thoughtless.

Thoughtless would be if I censored my speech in some PC attempt not to offend her. I wouldn't hesitate telling a Jew not to get "hot under the collar", for instance. These are phrases in common parlance and there's no reason not to say "wow, that sucks".

And yeah, very sorry you have to live with a disability. You're alive, so there you have it. I've stated my personal belief for you several times. I'm not personally in favor of abortion just because "I don't want to have a baby". You don't want to have a baby, put it up for adoption, sell it for parts, give it to Catholic Charities, but don't kill it. If it's going to kill you first, or cause some other horrendous outcome, then yeah, sometimes it's probably for the best.

One thing I was thinking of, and I don't have the answer to, is: Is there a Non Government-funded charitable organization that will take on the care of a child that the parents don't want, but which will cost millions to maintain? If you have a kid whose skull doesn't close, or has one limb, or 6 limbs, and will live its live in intensive care, can the parents just "walk away" if they don't have the money or don't want to deal with it?

Will someone else step up and care for the child for them? My gut tells me that the Catholic charities could very well do this, but I have no idea.

Thanks to Liberal "thought" against The Death Penalty, too many are released to kill innocents again and again—if they were ever found guilty in the first place. (Or "exonerated"—when found guilty).

Yep, only "liberals" ever let anyone out of prison alive. Forgot about that bullshit nonsense.

Conservatives would have non-violent drug offenders and deporting them, or even drowning them. Except when that drug addict is them. This was Rush's stance on drug addicts, I recall that the first time he was arrested he said nothing, has gone to rehab and remains out of prison, has not been drowned, and has not been deported.

You're up against that portion of US demographics among Latino/Black and Latino/White: Those from US Caribbean possessions—a significant demographic stateside as well— seldom "see themselves" (as permitted by US Census forms) as Latino/Black.

That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while. You're saying it's Hispanics who don't check the "Hispanic" box on the form, but instead lie and say they're white. Okaaay.

(Death penalty)

Absolutely, and Death can't take place too quickly in too many cases:

So you don't believe "thou shalt not kill", you believe "thou shalt not kill that which thou can't see". You believe in "Eye for an eye" not "Turn the other cheek". Sounds rather Islamic to me. Shall we cut the hands off of thieves too?

And some US Supreme Court Justices would quote foreign law into their decisions!

Which, where? I'm not aware of that. I'm guessing it's about providing context, but since you're incapable of inferring intent from context, it would zip right past you. See: "Barack Obama thinks pregnancy is a punishment", and "Sotomayor thinks wise latina women make better judges", it shows a lack of ability to interpret written and spoken language.

What's the intent of "I call upon all nations to do what they can to stop these terrorist killers, thank you. Now, watch this drive...."

"...My response isn't to try to SHOOT the doctor who performed it, or to blow up his clinic..."

Mine, neither.

Those acts, like Bill Ayers' bombings, are criminal. Thanks to Bill Clinton*, domestic bombers get passes—esecially to friends of BO.

I know you're not killing anyone. The disagreement was my assertion about their Terrorist classification. Weather Underground was investigated as a terror organization, as were the Black Panthers, Earth First!, Animal Liberation Front too. Why not those that splinter off of groups like Project Rescue because they're not radical enough?

You put a * next to Bill Clinton, as if to provide a footnote or cite later on, but I didn't see it. Bill Clinton's open disdain for Barack Obama during last year's campaign was quite evident. I don't know that he did Obama any favors in the '90's when Clinton had power and Obama was nobody.

There's too much money to be made by TPD.
I don't know what TPD means.

Church groups in particular are currently being hounded by the ACLU and Big/Socialist Government.

Except, you know, when the ACLU is too busy defending the Church Groups (One [lots of links here], two, three, four, five, six, seven).

I know you won't read those, and if you do, you won't believe it, or will discard them. All your assertion proves is that you learn nothing. We covered the ACLU to, I thought, your satisfaction.

They stand for individual freedoms. That means they stand against efforts to pump government money into religious organizations. They stand against "prayer time" in schools, but are similarly NOT opposed to allowing prayer in schools by students on their own time, as long as it's not a school-organized/sanctioned group.

They're not a very difficult organization to understand, but they stand in the way of some things the right-wing Conservatives want, and so they get demonized and flagellated publicly constantly. Part of their weakness is their unflinching protection of the First Amendment. Many organizations would sue for this as slander/libel, however the ACLU wants to defend the rights of those who would slander it.

I personally wouldn't want my mother to suffer just so I could be born.

You're too late with that message!

What's your point, my mom's fine. She wanted a baby, she had a baby. If she'd gotten pregnant and they found that her pregnancy could KILL HER, I would hope she would have the presence of mine to kill me first.

Survival of the fittest, in this case the fittest is the one who's already breathing on their own.

"...Any time I make a point on a subject based on things like "facts", you drop that line of argument and pick another...For instance, you've equated bank-robbers and drug-dealers to abortion doctors. My point is that what these doctors do is currently legal..."

It's "legal" to ski-board naked, bicycle naked, motorcycle naked and walk around naked in Vermont—a stronghold of Liberal "thought".

WTF does that have to do with people picking up guns, walking into churches and opening fire on the congregation. The reason public nudity is somewhat legal in Vermont is that no one ever wrote a law against it, because it's not a huge problem. Smaller government. I spend a lot of time in VT visiting in-laws (probably the majority of the Republican population to be honest), and have never seen anyone "inappropriately nude". From what I hear there are a couple of organized events, which get lots of press, because it's not common, and there's one park in like Bennington or something where women hang out topless sometimes.

The minute some greasy hippie walks into a church and starts blasting, then yeah, you can draw your comparison. When Smelly Hippies blow shit up like at anti-globalization riots, I fully support prosecuting the shit out of them, and investigating their organizations as "Terror Groups". When peaceful Smelly Hippies have pepper spray swabbed in their eyes during a silent sit-in protest, I call that abuse of power bordering on torture. Sometimes, I'm not a black and white guy. Because sometimes, the world isn't a black and white place.

I don't have a working TV, wouldn't watch his show anyway, haven't watched TV since 9/11, and haven't been provided a copy of the O'Reilly transcript.

So then what the fuck horse do you have in this race? I post "Here are wildly inaccurate numbers being thrown around on national TV by some asshole advocating violence against someone performing a legal activity". You jump in and start defending him with other inaccuracies and strawmen, and then say "But I don't care cause I've never seen the show".

Again, I never made the "Abortion should/shouldn't be legal" argument to begin with, I made the argument that people are being radicalized to violence in our own country and killing people who are legally performing their jobs. The shooters are terrorists, and Bill, Rush, Sean, Ann(drew), Savage, keep on pushing, pushing pushing.

Yeah, that "Certificate of Live Birth" rather than a birth certificate has never been resolved, has it. Why has he spent more than a million dollars to stop it. And why won't he reaveal his school papers to prove he did not receive aid as a foreign student. What is his problem.

in view of the fact that he's the President of the United States, he doesn't feel he has a problem.
oc

xrayspx's picture

At least two federal district courts have ruled this officially to be "Nonsense".

Two snopes articles:
Here

and

there

Please note the testimony of people who have actually handled his original birth certificate, and the cite of Hawaii state law preventing its release to anyone who does not have a "tangible interest".

That means that any election officials would have been able to handle the document in the pursuit of verification of citizenship, because they have a "tangible interest". You may NOT release it to newspapers, since they do not have a tangible interest, they have a "prurient interest".

If Obama wasn't a citizen, he wouldn't have been able to satisfy what I'm sure is a non-trivial government office tasked with making sure a person meets the criteria to be President. Unless you believe that he bribed the state government of Hawaii, two federal judges, and the entire FEC, DHS, Secret Service and whoever else decides if someone is legally eligible for the Presidency of the United States.

The only nutjobs crazy enough to keep pursuing this are WorldNetDaily. Limbaugh made mention of it, but it's pretty easily cleared up.

I provided the second link in the event someone went ahead and made that argument about Obama's mom, being that she was only 18 and Hawaii wasn't a state long enough, wasn't able to confer US citizenship on her son and therefore he is invalid.

This would be a bigger conspiracy, involving more agencies than any of:

  • The Moon Landing Hoax
  • The CIA Kennedy Assasination plot
  • The controlled US bombing of the WTC on 9/11

The only government conspiracies that I can think of which would touch more departments, both state and federal, than the Obama Citizenship Conspiracy are:

  • Water Fluoridation
  • Aliens at Roswell and subsequent cooperation with same
  • Illuminati / Freemason / Major League Baseball - backed secret World Government (in which case it doesn't really matter if the US President is a citizen, since he is just a puppet of the Freemasons anyway, QED)

I'm sorry for only including Snopes links, but it's late, I just got home from a mediocre concert experience, and I have to get up early tomorrow.

If anyone actually wants to continue the thread of Obama's Illegitimacy, please just let me know and I'll go dig up original court documents for the federal cases and try and figure out exactly what government agency investigates such things and find their damn report for you.

"...That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while. You're saying it's Hispanics who don't check the "Hispanic" box on the form, but instead lie and say they're white. Okaaay..."

First thing out of the box at Google:

Re: Latino/White:

"It is important to keep in mind that racial self-identifications on the US Census are optional categories that people select or choose not to select. In the case of Latinos and Latinas in the United States, some may feel as though they are white and thus will choose white for their race. Others may feel as though they are black or Native American or Asian.

"However, the majority of Latinos realize that they are not seen as white, black, Asian or Indian in daily life, but that they are racialized as Latinos or Latinas.

"In the absence of any racial choice which fits their understanding of themselves, about 40 percent of Latinos/as will check 'other' for their race."
Source: http://[Censored]/wiki/Race_(United_States_Census)
http://www.cocoalounge.org/viewthread.php?fid=7&tid=36165&action=printable

Yes, tis, Obama has spent millions to keep the contents of his original birth certificate secret. ...To be a fly on the wall...

Recently, it's been learned that he traveled to his Indonesian school under suspicious circumstances, registering in print as "Muslim", as well—and under a different name!

A trip to Muslim Pakistan was paid for by whom?

Who paid for his college?

Where are his Harvard accomplishments?

Why did he meet with Bill Ayers in New Jersey?

Why was it that bombers Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn who gave him his Senate send-off party?

Why did he publish a review of Bill Ayer's book?

Why do so many of "America-Haters"—Farakkhan, Wright, Dohrn, Ayers, crooks like Obama's Rezko—live within a few blocks of one another in Chicago?

"...Please read the entire stimulus bill and show me the passage in which Acorn is granted $5bn. The fact that you don't like Factcheck doesn't make the FACT any less valid. The section of the bill that allocates money for which Acorn is allowed to compete is not exclusive to them. They are competing against hundreds of other organizations, and the money is allocated for a purpose that they've never competed for in the past, and have no intention of competing now..."

1) Factcheck obfuscates—which is much worse than a weak attempt to legitimze his birthplace. (Or religion, which would be much worse—given his "Middle East Apologia" to World-Wide Islam).

2) Where did I say that ACORN was granted $5B?

"...These are phrases in common parlance and there's no reason not to say "wow, that sucks"..."

Whatever works for you.

"...And yeah, very sorry you have to live with a disability..."

Life is not a disability.

"...I've stated my personal belief for you several times. I'm not personally in favor of abortion just because "I don't want to have a baby"..."

I see NO distinction in a human's birth when confronted by the cruel outcomes of those who espouse either the "pro-choice" or "pro-abortion" terms for themselves.

"...One thing I was thinking of, and I don't have the answer to, is: Is there a Non Government-funded charitable organization that will take on the care of a child that the parents don't want, but which will cost millions to maintain? If you have a kid whose skull doesn't close, or has one limb, or 6 limbs, and will live its live in intensive care, can the parents just "walk away" if they don't have the money or don't want to deal with it?...Will someone else step up and care for the child for them? My gut tells me that the Catholic charities could very well do this, but I have no idea..."

A friend in "Neo-Natal Care" says she cares for those cases until adopted-out. Heck, it's done for animals—which I also cheerfully support.

"...You don't want to have a baby, put it up for adoption, sell it for parts, give it to Catholic Charities, but don't kill it. If it's going to kill you first, or cause some other horrendous outcome, then yeah, sometimes it's probably for the best..."

This sounds like it was lifted from Koz' Kids: please clarify.

"...Yep, only "liberals" ever let anyone out of prison alive. Forgot about that bullshit nonsense. Conservatives would have non-violent drug offenders and deporting them, or even drowning them. Except when that drug addict is them. This was Rush's stance on drug addicts, I recall that the first time he was arrested he said nothing, has gone to rehab and remains out of prison, has not been drowned, and has not been deported..."

1) Did Rush initially "want to get high"?

2) Most doctors and pharmacologists will admit that Oxycontin is among the most highly-addictive of drugs.

If it was prescribed, it could have been anybody so addicted.

"...WTF does that have to do with people picking up guns, walking into churches and opening fire on the congregation. The reason public nudity is somewhat legal in Vermont is that no one ever wrote a law against it...The minute some greasy hippie walks into a church and starts blasting, then yeah, you can draw your comparison. When Smelly Hippies blow shit up like at anti-globalization riots, I fully support prosecuting the shit out of them, and investigating their organizations as "Terror Groups". When peaceful Smelly Hippies have pepper spray swabbed in their eyes during a silent sit-in protest, I call that abuse of power bordering on torture. Sometimes, I'm not a black and white guy. Because sometimes, the world isn't a black and white place..."

1) Try a moral compass: works for me.

2) The "swabbing" episode preceeded the actual "pepper-spraying". 'Ya think maybe the message was "watch-out—the real spray is next?"

I can understand the judge recusing himself from the case.

"...(Death penalty)...So you don't believe "thou shalt not kill", you believe "thou shalt not kill that which thou can't see". You believe in "Eye for an eye" not "Turn the other cheek". Sounds rather Islamic to me. Shall we cut the hands off of thieves too...?"

There is nothing at all wrong with defense—whether of self- or society.

"...US Supreme Court Justices would quote foreign law into their decisions! Which, where? I'm not aware of that. I'm guessing it's about providing context, but since you're incapable of inferring intent from context..."

Try the vaunted New York Times for the latest America-Hating affront upon the finest country on the face of the Earth:

"WASHINGTON — Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court has embraced the practice of consulting foreign legal decisions, rejecting the argument from conservatives that U.S. law should not take international thinking into account..." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/world/americas/03iht-law.html

"...See: "Barack Obama thinks pregnancy is a punishment", and "Sotomayor thinks wise latina women make better judges", it shows a lack of ability to interpret written and spoken language..."

Obama stated that himself—interpretation not required—except maybe by a Koz Kid.

"...I know you're not killing anyone. The disagreement was my assertion about their Terrorist classification. Weather Underground was investigated as a terror organization, as were the Black Panthers, Earth First!, Animal Liberation Front too. Why not those that splinter off of groups like Project Rescue because they're not radical enough...?"

Black Panther splinter groups were intimidating voters in the last election: you don't have to use dynamite to change an election.

"...You put a * next to Bill Clinton, as if to provide a footnote or cite later on, but I didn't see it..."

Something I always do to remind everyone that Clinton* was the 2nd President in history to be impeached.

"...There's too much money to be made by TPD.
I don't know what TPD means..."

The Party of Death—Democrats—I'd previously defined it here.

"...Church groups in particular are currently being hounded by the ACLU and Big/Socialist Government...Except, you know, when the ACLU is too busy defending the Church Groups...I know you won't read those, and if you do, you won't believe it, or will discard them. All your assertion proves is that you learn nothing. We covered the ACLU to, I thought, your satisfaction...They stand for individual freedoms. That means they stand against efforts to pump government money into religious organizations. They stand against "prayer time" in schools, but are similarly NOT opposed to allowing prayer in schools by students on their own time, as long as it's not a school-organized/sanctioned group...They're not a very difficult organization to understand, but they stand in the way of some things the right-wing Conservatives want, and so they get demonized and flagellated publicly constantly. Part of their weakness is their unflinching protection of the First Amendment. Many organizations would sue for this as slander/libel, however the ACLU wants to defend the rights of those who would slander it..."

1) They were founded by a Communist, against whom hundreds of thousands of Americans died to prevent (or recently, it turns out, to delay) its rise in this country.

2) The ACLU appreciates your repetition of their "Statement of Mission".

"...Again, I never made the "Abortion should/shouldn't be legal" argument to begin with, I made the argument that people are being radicalized to violence in our own country and killing people who are legally performing their jobs. The shooters are terrorists, and Bill, Rush, Sean, Ann(drew), Savage, keep on pushing, pushing pushing..."

You forgot that a News/Talk radio host was once shot dead while legally performing his job?

"...What's your point, my mom's fine. She wanted a baby, she had a baby. If she'd gotten pregnant and they found that her pregnancy could KILL HER, I would hope she would have the presence of mine to kill me first...Survival of the fittest, in this case the fittest is the one who's already breathing on their own..."

1) There was, and is, a risk of the mother's death in childbirth. She took that risk, and you should be especially happy.

(Unless, like most Liberals, you're not happy).

2) The Catholic Church* reminds us that the mother is to sacrifice herself for her child—so precious is Life.

*I've never been affiliated, but can appreciate the Church's sentiments on some things—like Life itself.

"...So then what the fuck horse do you have in this race? I post "Here are wildly inaccurate numbers being thrown around on national TV by some asshole advocating violence against someone performing a legal activity". You jump in and start defending him with other inaccuracies and strawmen, and then say "But I don't care cause I've never seen the show..."

You know that number at O'Reilly's show—60,000 abortions—came from Tiller himself, right?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

3) ACORN gathered millions of such voters before and after that California mis-speak, and has already thrown one election.

4) With Billion$ in new "Stimulus" OPM money-grants they'll be retaining Our-Dear-Leader-For-Life in power for decades. (With fingers-out for OPM).

xrayspx's picture

Recently, it's been learned that he traveled to his Indonesian school under suspicious circumstances, registering in print as "Muslim", as well—and under a different name!

A trip to Muslim Pakistan was paid for by whom?

Who paid for his college?

Where are his Harvard accomplishments?

Why did he meet with Bill Ayers in New Jersey?

Why was it that bombers Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn who gave him his Senate send-off party?

Why did he publish a review of Bill Ayer's book?

Why do so many of "America-Haters"—Farakkhan, Wright, Dohrn, Ayers, crooks like Obama's Rezko—live within a few blocks of one another in Chicago?

Is that rhetorical or do you actually want me to run that stuff down? I'll do it.

"...These are phrases in common parlance and there's no reason not to say "wow, that sucks"..."

Whatever works for you.

"...And yeah, very sorry you have to live with a disability..."

Life is not a disability.

Life is not a disability, having to live with one arm is a disability.

A friend in "Neo-Natal Care" says she cares for those cases until adopted-out. Heck, it's done for animals—which I also cheerfully support.

Thanks for that. I'm still going to look into seeing if there's some organized charity that pays for that kind of thing. If my wife and I have a child, and that child is profoundly malformed, I for one am certain I cannot afford dozens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat that child for a short life in the ICU.

FWIW, in my house, that child /would/ be born.

"...You don't want to have a baby, put it up for adoption, sell it for parts, give it to Catholic Charities, but don't kill it. If it's going to kill you first, or cause some other horrendous outcome, then yeah, sometimes it's probably for the best..."

This sounds like it was lifted from Koz' Kids: please clarify.

Sure. I don't want to see anyone get an abortion out of convenience. If you're pregnant and don't want the baby, give it up for adoption or abandon it with nuns. YOU took actions that got you pregnant, and YOU should deal with it.

However, if a woman is raped, or if she is in danger from the pregnancy, there's no reason she should either live with the consequences of someone elses actions, or put her life at risk.

1) Did Rush initially "want to get high"?

2) Most doctors and pharmacologists will admit that Oxycontin is among the most highly-addictive of drugs.

Does it matter to Rush? He never made a distinction, in fact if I recall correctly he dismissed the "legally prescribed drugs leading to addiction" on weakness and personal irresponsibility.

You can make the excuse for the addiction, but not the actions to sustain the addiction, making staff buy him illegal Oxy, the famous sting bust. If you have an addiction, isn't the cold, calculating, conservative gameplan that you should suck it up and get your ass to rehab immediately?

That explains the Oxy though, how about the illegal Viagra on the way back from the Dominican?


1) Try a moral compass: works for me.

2) The "swabbing" episode preceeded the actual "pepper-spraying". 'Ya think maybe the message was "watch-out—the real spray is next?"

Seems to be serving me well as well sir.

The point with the pepperspray swabbing thing is that these people weren't doing anything. They were just sitting there chained up, so why are they getting riot control treatment? It's way over the top.

"...(Death penalty)...So you don't believe "thou shalt not kill", you believe "thou shalt not kill that which thou can't see". You believe in "Eye for an eye" not "Turn the other cheek". Sounds rather Islamic to me. Shall we cut the hands off of thieves too...?"

There is nothing at all wrong with defense—whether of self- or society.

So sometimes the best defense is a good offense? These guys aren't going to cause any more harm by sitting in prison until they rot.

"WASHINGTON — Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court has embraced the practice of consulting foreign legal decisions, rejecting the argument from conservatives that U.S. law should not take international thinking into account..." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/world/americas/03iht-law.html

Oh that's just hot...hadn't seen that, thanks. We agree, we do have a system of law, we don't have a system of Foreign law.

Congress should pay good attention to laws in the rest of the world to see if they fit here. If they would benefit us, they should write the law, and the court should interpret it. How hard is that.

"...You put a * next to Bill Clinton, as if to provide a footnote or cite later on, but I didn't see it..."

Oh, stop it, it's annoying. We all get that you don't like Clinton* (My star is for "the last fiscally responsible President)

"...See: "Barack Obama thinks pregnancy is a punishment", and "Sotomayor thinks wise latina women make better judges", it shows a lack of ability to interpret written and spoken language..."

Obama stated that himself—interpretation not required—except maybe by a Koz Kid.

No he didn't, he said "punished with a baby".

As I said before, repeatedly, it's all about the damn CONTEXT, which you don't seem to grasp. Here, please read the transcript of the interview and get back to me.

The answer was in the context of sex-ed. He is saying that while abstinence should be taught, it shouldn't be the only thing taught. What he said was that you should provide kids with all the information on birth control and STD prevention techniques. That you give them these facts so they don't go off ill-informed and get "punished with a baby, or punished with an STD" for not having had all the information.

You forgot that a News/Talk radio host was once shot dead while legally performing his job?

I don't know to whom you're referring, but check this out, it's pretty easy. Is there a pattern of killing TV hosts by similarly-minded people? Nope. Is there a pattern of shooting up churches, doctors, campaign workers, by a similarly minded group of people? Yes there is.

That's the difference between

  • Lone Nut, like a guy who reads something he doesn't like and goes off the deep end.
  • Pattern of Nuts: what we're in now, where there is a pattern of violence coming from the right-wing nuts, but it's not a real 'movement' yet
  • JIHAD! Which is the logical next step here.

    1) There was, and is, a risk of the mother's death in childbirth. She took that risk, and you should be especially happy.

    (Unless, like most Liberals, you're not happy).

    2) The Catholic Church* reminds us that the mother is to sacrifice herself for her child—so precious is Life.

    *I've never been affiliated, but can appreciate the Church's sentiments on some things—like Life itself.

    1) There's risk in everything. I could fall out of my chair and impale myself on a screwdriver. The "risk to the mother" argument doesn't cover a mother's worry that "there's inherent risk in pregnancy", it covers medical concerns that the mother would either be seriously injured or killed by taking the baby to term.

    2) I'm not Catholic, so it's all just words to me. If someone wants to be noble and put their life before another, that's a good thing for them to do, and something I would do myself. However you can't force people to be noble

    You know that number at O'Reilly's show—60,000 abortions—came from Tiller himself, right?

    Show me, I hadn't found that, thanks.

xrayspx's picture

"1) Try a moral compass: works for me."

Does it? It seems that if something is a Democrat-proposed policy, you hate it, if it's a Republican-proposed policy, you'll defend the most flawed plan to your last breath.

I think you may carry a rare-earth magnet in your back pocket that might be screwing with your compass.

Snopes is a liberal couple who live in California and they are biased. People act like they are some big company that know the truth about everything.
Getting back to Obama-as I said, if he has nothing to fear why doesn't he just come up with the appropriate papers and stop spending millions to fight all these court cases??? Simple!
There apparently is absolutely noone who checks out the credentials of a future president. You just go sign up to run. Others who work for the government, have to go through unbelievable hoops to do their job, including showing their BIRTH CERTIFICATES and SCHOOL PAPERS! Even Hillary had to go through the tenth degree to be Sec. Of State.

xrayspx's picture

I'll friggin' primary-source everything myself.

I didn't let the fact that Fox is biased get in the way of me posting a fact sheet from there earlier in the thread, shall I primary-source all of their numbers just for fun?

You'll note that PTW dismissed those stats, from a conservative website, out of hand when they disagreed with his assertion.

So yeah, don't believe two federal courts, don't believe the Secret Service, don't believe any of the other federal investigators whose job it is to verify citizenship for the highest damn office in the country.

You know, I think that if he wasn't legally able to be elected, probably these agents would have found something.

What you're doing with that argument is asserting that there is a conspiracy at the highest levels of the Executive and Judicial branches of the federal government, extending to several state agencies in Hawaii and who-knows-where else.

I'm thinking this belongs roughly between the Moon Landing and Roswell Aliens on my scale of massive coverups. Fluoridation of Water and Worldwide Shadow Conspiracies are bigger than this, and the Kennedy Assassination was much much easier.

Let me know, I'll put it on my list, in the meantime, I'll primary-source which Federal agencies you should expect to show up at your door, since now that you've blown the conspiracy wide open, they'll probably try and disappear us all.

They know.

They're coming.

Hide.

(I'm watching X-Files 2 as I speak, it sucks don't bother)

As I said, there is no background check for someone to become president. Seems unbelievable, but a candidate does not have to go through that.

xrayspx's picture

There were two federal court cases regarding his citizenship.

This is as crazy as me debating McCain's citizenship because he was born in Panama.

xrayspx's picture

Please tell me this chain email or some variant thereof is your source for the Snopes thing:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/internet/a/snopes_exposed.htm

No that was not my source. I have heard it a few times on talk shows. I said a couple, a man and woman and they said a guy on your source.
I believe there are more than two lawsuits. At least one is ongoing. The guy is a lawyer-a democrat from Pa. who says he will not stop until he either has proof or he proves that he is not a citizen. I forget his name right now.
As I said, and as I have heard some of the talk show hosts say, if he is a citizen, prove it, simple. end of discussion. Come up with the papers. Don't spend millions to fight it. When they were running McCain came up with his papers, why won't Obama?

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